New QF Frequent Flyer with some questions

[GoneMissed]

G'day all,

I am brand new to this frequent flyer/points world, after getting encouraged into it by a mate. I have learnt some things from him but he isn't an expert either, hoping to have some things sorted out here!

Essentially I signed up to the QF FF program for one reason: to try and get business class seats at least one way, when my missus and I fly to Europe next May (yes, a long time away sadly). As it stands I will shortly have 140k points, primarily thanks to signing up to the AMEX card with 100k bonus. At this stage we're looking at QF1/2, and would prefer the outbound trip to be business class.

From what my mate said, the best way to achieve this is to book flexi tickets in economy (I believe these are J tickets?) and then once the booking is done and paid for, use points to upgrade to business class. With that said, I have a few questions:

- is there any way to see how many points are required to upgrade to business class before making the booking?
- is it correct that even when trying to use points to upgrade, that if you have the points, there is no guarantee you will get the upgrade desired?
- how many points (roughly) would be required to make this happen? I read somewhere (on here I think) that it would be roughly 72k per person, one way - is that correct?

I suppose my biggest question is if it was one of you doing this kind of thing, what steps do you take, tactics & tools etc. do you use to make this kind of thing happen? Do you use websites like Expert Flyer? I went on their website and while it looks impressive, is quite overwhelming and I found most of it to go straight over my head!

Any help appreciated.

Cheers
Joe

 

[Limewood]

How many points for upgrade HERE.

Book using Q points do it as far our from departure as possible.

Without Q status J will be hard to get and upgrade is a lottery..

Many of us use Award Nexus to see what class of seats are available.

Going to Europe try Y (economy) to HKG then second try HKG in J to your destination on CX, QR and other OneWorld Airline partners.

Go through AFF forums to do your homework .

Ps going Y long haul is not a good use off FF points.

 

[Deleted member]

Hi and welcome, are you planning on doing much (domestic) flying in the interim? the key to success with most of this stuff, is status, and status is gained by flying regularly, even in Y (just ask JohnK) so while you're starting a bit behind the 8 ball right now, the lessons learned now will help make life better / easier in the future.
points are great, but as Limewood says Long Haul in Y is a waste of point spend, if it were me, I would likley look at booking J on the longer routes (each way) and sucking it up in Y on the short hops.
Hope this is of some help

 

[MEL_Traveller]

From what my mate said, the best way to achieve this is to book flexi tickets in economy (I believe these are J tickets?) and then once the booking is done and paid for, use points to upgrade to business class.

This is good advice for domestic - but unfortunately not such good advice for international. International upgrades are only processed last minute and anyone with status will trump someone without status. Your chances of securing an upgrade are virtually nil.

 

[GoneMissed]

Thank you everybody for taking the time to respond!

Not a great amount of other/domestic flights planned before our trip, certainly not enough to lift me above Bronze.

So essentially from what I gather is that I would have to pay extra (Y class basically, when I'd normally book red e-deal or sale) - and then use points for an upgrade, of which I'd most likely be unsuccessful, then have to travel in economy anyway? That is disappointing. I understand, but frustrating nonetheless.

I certainly need to do more reading here but for someone like me (Bronze status), it seems paying extra to then try and get an upgrade on points is a waste of money. I could be missing something of course.

Is it any better flying to SIN, HKG etc. then using points to upgrade on a Oneworld carrier? We do not have to fly to LHR - CDG, FRA etc. are fine also. I guess what I'm getting at is similar to what Limewood suggested, except I don't fully understand the method described. I would even consider paying somebody a fee or taking care of this for me when it comes time to book!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thank you everybody for taking the time to respond!

Not a great amount of other/domestic flights planned before our trip, certainly not enough to lift me above Bronze.

So essentially from what I gather is that I would have to pay extra (Y class basically, when I'd normally book red e-deal or sale) - and then use points for an upgrade, of which I'd most likely be unsuccessful, then have to travel in economy anyway? That is disappointing. I understand, but frustrating nonetheless.

I certainly need to do more reading here but for someone like me (Bronze status), it seems paying extra to then try and get an upgrade on points is a waste of money. I could be missing something of course.

Is it any better flying to SIN, HKG etc. then using points to upgrade on a Oneworld carrier? We do not have to fly to LHR - CDG, FRA etc. are fine also. I guess what I'm getting at is similar to what Limewood suggested, except I don't fully understand the method described. I would even consider paying somebody a fee or taking care of this for me when it comes time to book!

The 'easiest' use of points is to secure a business class ticket outright from the beginning. That guarantees you business class. At the moment it will cost you 256K points return to Europe (plus Qantas fuel surcharges).

If you are really after flying business class more cost effectively, that's a different issue. For that you pick up a paid business class from various Asian cities to Europe in the $2000-$2500 range (different carriers offer sales at different times). How you get to Asia is up to you... either a cheapie paid ticket on Thai, Singapore or Qantas, or Jetstar/Air Asia/Scoot if you really want to save money. Or... use Qantas points to fly business class to Asia to connect to your paid ticket to Europe. That'll set you back 120K points return to Asia (plus fuel).

The Qantas upgrade lottery is as you describe... with upgrades awarded on status first, time of request second. So a silver putting in an upgrade request a week before departure will get an upgrade before a bronze member who may have been on the waiting list for 6 months. Silver status is easy and a dime a dozen. And there are tens of thousands of golds/platinums above silver. So a bronze upgrade really is far from guaranteed.

 

[Imw]

The 'easiest' use of points is to secure a business class ticket outright from the beginning. That guarantees you business class. At the moment it will cost you 256K points return to Europe (plus Qantas fuel surcharges).

If you are really after flying business class more cost effectively, that's a different issue. For that you pick up a paid business class from various Asian cities to Europe in the $2000-$2500 range (different carriers offer sales at different times). How you get to Asia is up to you... either a cheapie paid ticket on Thai, Singapore or Qantas, or Jetstar/Air Asia/Scoot if you really want to save money. Or... use Qantas points to fly business class to Asia to connect to your paid ticket to Europe. That'll set you back 120K points return to Asia (plus fuel).

The Qantas upgrade lottery is as you describe... with upgrades awarded on status first, time of request second. So a silver putting in an upgrade request a week before departure will get an upgrade before a bronze member who may have been on the waiting list for 6 months. Silver status is easy and a dime a dozen. And there are tens of thousands of golds/platinums above silver. So a bronze upgrade really is far from guaranteed.

Welcome to the forum.
i'm a fairly newbie too and yes it seems a bit overwhelming at first and I still dont understand lots of the jargon. However, using some of the tips and planning has got my husband, who travels more than I, to Qantas Gold status. And therefore we have scored points upgrades last few trips (to South Africa).
I also joined him up to Qantas Acquire and means double up points plus various purchases help build too. We have stuck where possible to Qantas or their partners so always looking to earn points plus of course the all important status credits. We have been able to take advantage of 50% more status credits on at least two occasions which helped get him to Gold.
So keep reading this site, it becomes clearer and the members are incredibly helpful posting replies.

 

[RooFlyer]

<snip>
So essentially from what I gather is that I would have to pay extra (Y class basically, when I'd normally book red e-deal or sale) - and then use points for an upgrade, of which I'd most likely be unsuccessful, then have to travel in economy anyway? That is disappointing. I understand, but frustrating nonetheless. <snip>

This is a good summary, unfortunately, and good that you have learned this hard lesson up-front.

<snip>
If you are really after flying business class more cost effectively, that's a different issue. For that you pick up a paid business class from various Asian cities to Europe in the $2000-$2500 range (different carriers offer sales at different times). How you get to Asia is up to you... either a cheapie paid ticket on Thai, Singapore or Qantas, or Jetstar/Air Asia/Scoot if you really want to save money. Or... use Qantas points to fly business class to Asia to connect to your paid ticket to Europe. That'll set you back 120K points return to Asia (plus fuel).<snip>.

This is good advice. You can get genuinely cheap business class seats to Europe, originating in Asia, but you have to have your wits about you. Go to the web sites of Finnair, Lufthansa, Cathay, Qatar, ... even Oman Air :shock: (good business class, BTW) .. others will have suggestions .. and sign up for their newsletters and promos. You'll get a bunch more e-mail in your in-box, but easily handled. If paying even for a cheap J seat doesn't appeal, realise that even with your points QF J seat, you'll be paying quite a bit of cash in addition for their 'fees and taxes' .

Check the 'Cheap international air fares' thread.

 

[hm520]

G'day all,

Essentially I signed up to the QF FF program for one reason: to try and get business class seats at least one way, when my missus and I fly to Europe next May (yes, a long time away sadly). As it stands I will shortly have 140k points, primarily thanks to signing up to the AMEX card with 100k bonus. At this stage we're looking at QF1/2, and would prefer the outbound trip to be business class.

I suppose my biggest question is if it was one of you doing this kind of thing, what steps do you take, tactics & tools etc. do you use to make this kind of thing happen? Do you use websites like Expert Flyer? I went on their website and while it looks impressive, is quite overwhelming and I found most of it to go straight over my head!

The answers to your other questions are elsewhere so I thought I'd focus on these.

I've never flown to Europe and tried to upgrade and I've never flown and tried to upgrade two passengers on the same itinerary. That said I've had quite good luck in my upgrade requests (5 of 5) with relatively "low status" - here are my tips.

Firstly - 140k points isn't enough for return upgrades for the two of you - just one way. There was talk of there being an increase in the point requirements to upgrade, check how many are required now. Maybe consider signing up for the ANZ FF card given there's a reasonable bonus and no annual fee.

Second - as for tactics and tools. I'm not sure what your financial situation is so I cannot advise you use the flight tracking websites for seat availability and then booking a a few days before and requesting an upgrade.

My soft tips & tricks for upgrades are limited but have worked so far. These include
1) Flying during non-school holiday periods
2) Booking midweek flights
3) Booking at your earliest convenience and requesting the upgrade straight away
4) Rubbing my lucky rabbit foot

 

[love_the_life]

The other thing to remember is that you can only use your points to upgrade on QF flights (i.e. with a QF flight number).

As Rooflyer says the 'taxes and fees' on QF bookings out of Australia are not small so that is another thing to consider. There can often be quite good availability for award J seating out of Asia on other one-world partners. I would start doing some dummy bookings to see what the points needed are from different areas, what the sort of timings look like and what the extra costs would be.

 

[kitkatff]

if what you really want is to fly business, look around - try flights.google.com to get ideas of routing, airlines and prices.
Just had a look for MEL-LHR in May this year, midweek, you can get J fares under $6K with Chinese airlines. If you look at, say, premium eco on QF it's around the $4K mark. Depends of course on finances, etc, but if it's a kind of "once every 5 years, want to make it special" type trip, well, worth thinking about it.
Also don't fly to London, it's more expensive due to airport fees there. Try Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt instead.

 

[RichardMEL]

If it were me and I was not planning much ongoing activity beyond this 2018 planned "big trip" to Europe I would probably either

a) look for a sale J fare (such as the current, but soon to end Finnair sale, or Swiss or whoever combo fare) for the dates you want. This can guarantee seats in Business without all the hassle.. of course it will be a hit on your budget to spoil yourself and the other half

b) look to get award tickets in Business and/or first by buying miles with either American, Alaska etc.. the benefit would be a wider choice of partners, and if you plan it right you could scoop up tickets on say Ethiad or Emirates or Qantas or Cathay or a combination for a relatively modest amount(since May is still a bit of a shoulder season, award space *may* be easier to find if one is ready to book from May this year). The investment would be smaller (specially with bonus promotions and the like) but the potential downside is you can't get availability and then stuck with miles elsewhere.

Th eupgrade game would be a last result specially with zero status with QF (or any airline) as on routes to Europe where QF only has 2 flights a day on their metal you're behind all the Platinum's, Golds, Silvers etc. One may get lucky but it's pretty unlikely and not something you'd want to bank on as a given. I wouldn't consider it a given and I'm at the (in theory) top of the status pile with QF.

Also remember many european flights with QF include codeshares on Emirates aircraft, and these can not be upgraded so one needs to be very careful.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

If it hasn't been answered, J is not flexY, J is full business class.
And its the most expensive class in the business class family of flight tickets/fare classes. Next is F and its subclasses.
Subclass of J business are classed as C/D/I.
Also, even though you say you don't have much dom flights planned, what I would do, if I were you, is to start a "relationship" with QFd now.
Do some flying, even in discY within Aust.
I have been with QF for over 20 years, and even as a NB long ago, I had some empty seats next to me, travelling Aust QFd flights.
Now with QF SG, I get many more times, empty seats next to me, and hot having paid for them, and the plane has been quite full.
One option, instead of going business class, is to pay for QF's Qantas Club membership which gives you access to international business class lounges when you fly overseas.
Also you can pay 1.9 times the adult fare per person, and get an empty seat next to you.
Ergo, just like business class, but cheaper.
Qantas sells these as a comfort seat request, long haul its nice having 3 seats in a row, between 2 people, the seat in between purposely kept empty for you 2 to share.

 

[RichardMEL]

Also, even though you say you don't have much dom flights planned, what I would do, if I were you, is to start a "relationship" with QFd now.
Do some flying, even in discY within Aust.
I have been with QF for over 20 years, and even as a NB long ago, I had some empty seats next to me, travelling Aust QFd flights.
Now with QF SG, I get many more times, empty seats next to me, and hot having paid for them, and the plane has been quite full.

I would remind anyone reading this advice that this is anecdotal and NOT a published benefit of ANY QF status level and it should NOT be expected to occur on a regular basis.

Also you can pay 1.9 times the adult fare per person, and get an empty seat next to you.
Ergo, just like business class, but cheaper.

How exactly is a Y comfort seat "just like business class"?

It is still Y service and pitch, and of course it's less likely than a seat in J mext to one would be free (in cabins where this is an issue, such as the 737 or 717).

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

If I cant afford J or F Au to UK I would certainly buy the seat next to me.

 

[RichardMEL]

If I cant afford J or F Au to UK I would certainly buy the seat next to me.

That's fine.

Not meaning to sound rude Poochie, but that doesn't answer the question. You wrote "Just like Business Class" and frankly on Australia-London in no way is 2 seats in Y even close to the J product.

(and a seat in PE would probably be cheaper!)


In my view, anyway.

 

[eminere]

I would remind anyone reading this advice that this is anecdotal and NOT a published benefit of ANY QF status level and it should NOT be expected to occur on a regular basis.

Seconded. This is very misleading advice imo and one that has been repeated on the forum several times by this member.

If Qantas can sell out the cabin they will.

There is a difference between a flight that goes out not full and therefore there happens to be vacant seats throughout the cabin, and having a seat shadow because of one's status.

Seat shadows are not a published benefit of status and so should not be relied upon.

 

[Straubs]

Don't lose heart about being Bronze and not getting upgrades, but don't expect it on every attempt and you have to be ok with it not happening ...

I, like you, had about 150-160K in points when we travelled to Thailand last year. This was after being a serious AFF member (ie I logged in a lot and drank up everybody's posts and advice!) for about a year. I had been a QFF/Woolies rewards card enthusiast for about the same amount of time.
Points were accrued from woolies purchases, 2-3 domestic flights and purchases on my points earning Credit Card - I didn't buy anything I wouldn't have bought anyway.
i purchased the economy flights - making sure they were in an upgradeable class (thank you AFF!) - and immediately put in my upgrade requests for the Brisbane to Singapore and return segments. I didn't want to spend any points on the short domestic leg before this, and I couldn't upgrade Singapore to coughet because this was with Jetstar Asia (Qantas doesn't fly that leg itself, of course).
You're right, I could find some cheaper Red-e deal style fares, but In all reality the cheaper flights (and there weren't many) that I could find would have meant adding a lot more waiting around in airports, so that didn't suit us .. and hubby is a nervous flyer who prefers Qantas ... so for this reason I didn't really look too hard at cheaper fares with other airlines. So basically, I could have gotten a cheaper flight, but not with my preferred carrier.

I booked about 3 months out, then immediately requested the upgrade on the Bris-Singapore legs both ways. This was 40,000 points per person each way. Of course I wanted the upgrade but figured even if we didn't get it, the points could be used at a later date so I didn't get too invested about the outcome ... I didn't like my chances given this was a popular weekend flight with a request for two upgrades on Bronze status. (In any case, our consolation prize was that we had business class lounge passes for Brisbane from my credit card provider, so we were still going to get a touch of luxury even without the upgrade.)

However about 28 hours before the flight - and following a particularly harrowing night shift - I got an angelic text from the Upgrade Fairy approx 6am. My hubby and I were thrilled, and it was the most fabulous experience - all the work had been so worth it.

While in Thailand, imagine our excitement when I logged into my FF account to check in for our return flight, only to find my points balance was almost zero - it meant we'd received our second upgrade for the return trip!

So yes, your chances of an upgrade are low as Bronze, but it can def happen. The biggest problem, when it does, is that you don't ever want to go back to Economy. I'm still Bronze but closer to moving up the ladder (!) and chasing those points harder than ever now!

Sorry to virtually write novel about my own experience, but I wanted to get across to you that I think the points journey is worth it!

 

[Strategic Aviation]

I couldn't upgrade Singapore to coughet because this was with Jetstar Asia (Qantas doesn't fly that leg itself, of course).

And Jetstar Asia don't have any J seats to upgrade into

 

[JohnK]

If I cant afford J or F Au to UK I would certainly buy the seat next to me.

No need to buy extra seat. A380 is fairly comfortable and I am of the larger size variety. I would buy 2 airfares on special to go at different times.