"No award flights available" - Really???

[Capt. Clarence Oveur]

Hi all.... Clarence here

Have you spoken to the call centre only to hear those dreaded words? I heard those again today for the umpteenth time in the past 3 months.
After casually checking the booking tool for availability of a basic Brisbane to Perth award flight in June next year, I found the flight I was looking for.
(and for reassurance I checked and there were a stack of other available seats that day and days around it). I did not hold or book those seats but instead, I contacted the call centre and got through quite quickly and a pleasant rep handled my query, until 1 minute into checking - I was told "there are no economy award seats for Brisbane - Perth for ALL of June 2023". Asking to check, double check - the answer was unchanged. The call was over.

This situation has happened many times to me such that I have queried how I could this so wrong. I have read many posts here on AFF to understand about 'live' availability vs what we see online on our screens to opaque rules that only the call centre know about.
Needless to say I went about booking my seats online and confirming my ticket. Hmmm yes there was availability.

Why didn't I do this the first time? Well yes I was looking to change a sector from Sydney-Perth to Brisbane-Perth of my OWA and we didn't even get to the bit about the those rules.
Lesson #1: DIY online booking tool is the only way to get satisfaction. Spend time working the engine out rather than wasted time on a phone. OR
Lesson #2: If at first you don't succeed, try another rep the next day and the next...have a coffee/tea, nice calming music and settle in...

oh and finally, as is typical in call centres, I could hear another rep close by (through the phone) giving it to a QFF customer, repeating quite loudly about the Qantas rules. Someone else not having a good day.
Oveur

 

[MJHoops]

I’m a lesson 1 adoptee

 

[exceladdict]

This is all well and good, except when you can't book what you're looking for online!

 

[ChrisMars]

Hi all.... Clarence here

Have you spoken to the call centre only to hear those dreaded words? I heard those again today for the umpteenth time in the past 3 months.
After casually checking the booking tool for availability of a basic Brisbane to Perth award flight in June next year, I found the flight I was looking for.
(and for reassurance I checked and there were a stack of other available seats that day and days around it). I did not hold or book those seats but instead, I contacted the call centre and got through quite quickly and a pleasant rep handled my query, until 1 minute into checking - I was told "there are no economy award seats for Brisbane - Perth for ALL of June 2023". Asking to check, double check - the answer was unchanged. The call was over.

This situation has happened many times to me such that I have queried how I could this so wrong. I have read many posts here on AFF to understand about 'live' availability vs what we see online on our screens to opaque rules that only the call centre know about.
Needless to say I went about booking my seats online and confirming my ticket. Hmmm yes there was availability.

Why didn't I do this the first time? Well yes I was looking to change a sector from Sydney-Perth to Brisbane-Perth of my OWA and we didn't even get to the bit about the those rules.
Lesson #1: DIY online booking tool is the only way to get satisfaction. Spend time working the engine out rather than wasted time on a phone. OR
Lesson #2: If at first you don't succeed, try another rep the next day and the next...have a coffee/tea, nice calming music and settle in...

oh and finally, as is typical in call centres, I could hear another rep close by (through the phone) giving it to a QFF customer, repeating quite loudly about the Qantas rules. Someone else not having a good day.
Oveur

Hey Captain, just to check, the booking you try to initiate via the call center, was it a completly new booking at this stage, or were you trying to modify an existing booking (i.e. you already provided a booking reference)?

Just checking, cause sadly there are a few reports now that indicate offshore call centre "not seeing" some rewards, but claiming they could book it if it was for a new booking.

 

[Capt. Clarence Oveur]

Hey ChrisMars - good question...it was an existing booking...the flow was like:
* I pressed 5 to change an existing booking on the options - does that matter I wonder?
* When the rep answered they started with usual security questions then asking for booking ref.
* After mentioning the ref I said I had found some seats online I'd like you to check. (to get around the live availability thing). I also said pls don't cancel any of my existing booking...yep didn't want that nightmare.
* Response was no availability.
There was no interest in checking and then the statement of No availability for all of June was astounding...
* Were they reading off a script? Is there an engine rule blocking availability of an existing booking? Other?
Hmmm
Oveur

 

[Capt. Clarence Oveur]

This is all well and good, except when you can't book what you're looking for online!

True that's for sure - that would be the needle in the haystack to find a seat not online (especially outside Qantas), which makes it even more perplexing when you are pretty confident of online availablity. A search of 4 seats shows plenty on offer.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So this is an ongoing issue and it is a commercial block on seats by qantas.

They will not allow you to add a major domestic connecting flight onto an inbound international service.

It’s basically a form of inventory control, if you cannot find seats xx_-PER, they will not allow you to circumvent their commercial restrictions by flying xx_-BNE-PER. Or xx_-any Aussie capital-PER.

I think there is an exception for places like canberra and hobart etc which do not have direct international services.

Basically, if you cannot find the connection offered at the time of booking you won’t be allowed to add it later unless you pay for an entirely new fare, or points at the full sector cost (not the through fare).

There is another thread dedicated to this on AFF, and there really isn’t a solution, unless you are platinum or above and can access either the AKL or Hobart call centres.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

To give an example of just how this blocks works I’ll use my experience trying to book something like this.

I was searching SYD-SIN return. Outbound was ok for the dates I wanted, but nothing on the return.

Using the multi-city tool I could find SYD-SIN, SIN-MEL, MEL-SYD.

It errored out each time and wouldn’t allow me to pay.

I rang the call centre, and here’s how it played out:

• giving the agent the international sectors, SYD-SIN and SIN-MEL, they could find not see availability MEL-SYD.
• I then asked the agent to start with the MEL-SYD sector… no worries, they could ‘see’ the flight I wanted… BUT… the system then didn’t show SYD-SIN or SIN-MEL! The agent said the seats had ‘just gone’ on the international sectors.

I pointed out that I could still see the SYD-SIN and SIN-MEL… and book it. To which the agents said ‘no, that’s not live’.

So it doesn’t matter how you try and play it, adding domestic sectors just isn’t possible Either the international or domestic become ‘unavailable’ in the syste m once you book one or the other.

 

[Seat0B]

I agree with you @MJHoops about lesson 1, and you @exceladdict about the frustration when you can’t self serve and have to run the gauntlet of a call centre - even as a WP.

My own lesson in this is make sure you book awards when you see them and then DO NOT CHNAGE ANYTHING UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Of course, that isn’t much help if you get an airline initiated change to your flights.
I honestly don’t know why this has become such an issue, but it is terrifying, frustrating, aggravating in equal measure.

 

[blackcat20]

We had similar issues trying to change the MEL-SYD leg on a MEL-SYD-LAX booking. Despite our domestic flight being cancelled, they couldn't see any seats available on earlier flights where both the website and Expert Flyer showed plenty of U availability.

 

[Seat0B]

To give an example of just how this blocks works I’ll use my experience trying to book something like this.

I was searching SYD-SIN return. Outbound was ok for the dates I wanted, but nothing on the return.

Using the multi-city tool I could find SYD-SIN, SIN-MEL, MEL-SYD.

It errored out each time and wouldn’t allow me to pay.

I rang the call centre, and here’s how it played out:

• giving the agent the international sectors, SYD-SIN and SIN-MEL, they could find not see availability MEL-SYD.
• I then asked the agent to start with the MEL-SYD sector… no worries, they could ‘see’ the flight I wanted… BUT… the system then didn’t show SYD-SIN or SIN-MEL! The agent said the seats had ‘just gone’ on the international sectors.

I pointed out that I could still see the SYD-SIN and SIN-MEL… and book it. To which the agents said ‘no, that’s not live’.

So it doesn’t matter how you try and play it, adding domestic sectors just isn’t possible Either the international or domestic become ‘unavailable’ in the syste m once you book one or the other.

And I recently had a similar experience with a paid ticket!

I could do CBR-MEL-DXB outbound no worries but I could not get it to accept the final leg between MEL-CBR on our return home. Tried all sorts of things. Nothing worked. Agents useless - as a WP I still got to Capetown.in the end I booked a separate rewards flight for the MEL-CBR leg. I know it’s a bit of a risk with not being on the same PNR as international, but as we have an overnight connection of 14 hrs due to the Melbourne arrival being at 2230 and no onwards flight same day, it should be ok. I’m very frustrated.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

We had similar issues trying to change the MEL-SYD leg on a MEL-SYD-LAX booking. Despite our domestic flight being cancelled, they couldn't see any seats available on earlier flights where both the website and Expert Flyer showed plenty of U availability.

The simple solution, and the right one, would be for the call centre to simply say ‘yes, these seats are there, but aren’t available on this booking due to Qantas’ revenue and commercial controls’.

And update the terms and conditions accordingly.

But of course the call centre agents haven’t been authorised to say that so we get all sorts of rubbish like ‘qantas doesn’t fly from SYD to MEL after 4.30pm on any day of the week, for the next year’.

Surely the agents must realise how ridiculous that sounds?

 

[blackcat20]

The simple solution, and the right one, would be for the call centre to simply say ‘yes, these seats are there, but aren’t available on this booking due to Qantas’ revenue and commercial controls’.

And update the terms and conditions accordingly.

But of course the call centre agents haven’t been authorised to say that so we get all sorts of rubbish like ‘qantas doesn’t fly from SYD to MEL after 4.30pm on any day of the week, for the next year’.

Surely the agents must realise how ridiculous that sounds?

They were very insistent only 2 seats were available, EF showed 4, so clearly only 2 available for a connecting flight. Once I complained, they called me and had it sorted in minutes. Not that it mattered, the flight was cancelled anyway and we ended up back where we started.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

They were very insistent only 2 seats were available, EF showed 4, so clearly only 2 available for a connecting flight. Once I complained, they called me and had it sorted in minutes. Not that it mattered, the flight was cancelled anyway and we ended up back where we started.

With a flight being cancelled that opens more options for them to force it through… or at least get the yield desk to do so.

Where there is no compelling or ‘involuntary’ factor, they simply won’t do it via any of the OS call centres.

 

[exceladdict]

This is making me question an upcoming strategy to book a domestic flight that I knowingly need to change via a call centre (as mentioned elsewhere, due to impossibility to book via multi city).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This is making me question an upcoming strategy to book a domestic flight that I knowingly need to change via a call centre (as mentioned elsewhere, due to impossibility to book via multi city).

If the fee waiver is still in place for changes or cancellations, worth trying. But if not, could be an expensive exercise.

You can test it out by asking the call centre if they can book your AAA-BBB, then see if they can add CCC on the same call. If they say ‘no availability’^ you know you have run into this issue.

^ they may say ‘qantas doesn’t fly that route’ or ‘qantas only flies that route at 7am, once a year’, or ‘that flight [where you see availability] is cancelled’. Or any combination of these

 

[Cognac]

Wow. That's quite convoluted. Also might explain why I can never see xx_-PER availability when searching for awards...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Wow. That's quite convoluted. Also might explain why I can never see xx_-PER availability when searching for awards...

The call centre is happy to charge you for an additional new award and include it on the same ticket as the international.

 

[randompunter]

The simple solution, and the right one, would be for the call centre to simply say ‘yes, these seats are there, but aren’t available on this booking due to Qantas’ revenue and commercial controls’.

And update the terms and conditions accordingly.

But of course the call centre agents haven’t been authorised to say that so we get all sorts of rubbish like ‘qantas doesn’t fly from SYD to MEL after 4.30pm on any day of the week, for the next year’.

Surely the agents must realise how ridiculous that sounds?

Do similar controls apply on some domestic itineraries too? I recall a while back, 2018 I think, I booked an award ASP - BNE - TSV but our friends in Brisbane could not book the ASP - BNE as a stand alone award. Both online and call centre said no availability but seats magically appeared if adding on TSV. Quite an expensive revenue ticket too so they ended up on Jetstar

 

[jpp42]

Do similar controls apply on some domestic itineraries too? I recall a while back, 2018 I think, I booked an award ASP - BNE - TSV but our friends in Brisbane could not book the ASP - BNE as a stand alone award. Both online and call centre said no availability but seats magically appeared if adding on TSV. Quite an expensive revenue ticket too so they ended up on Jetstar

Seems likely they could - this kind of thing is quite common for revenue fares, where they are happy to offer lower fares (or in this case, more classic flight rewards), between outstations as long as you don't disembark at the hub city. For an upcoming US trip, I'm considering taking advantage of such "hidden city ticketing" to save US$300 (it's $200 when flying past the hub to a further destination, but $500 for the first flight booked alone).