Opinions about Classic Awards flights to Japan for Jan/Feb 2023

[Seat0B]

Hello hive mind. I’m seeking opinions to help me decide how best to get classic award flights to Japan for late January/early February 2023 in economy for my daughter, her wife had my granddaughter aged 2. I’m a WP.

Wanting to fly from Canberra to Sapporo return, ideally direct as it will be the first trip for Ms 2. I can currently get flights via Sydney, but they are on JAL and require a flight change in Tokyo, plus then arrive in Sapporo late in the evening requiring an overnight stay before heading to ski fields the next day. Previously, have just flown Sydney to Sapporo direct and straight on the bus to the ski fields - much easier with a little one.

Now I assume that there not too many flights available at the moment because Japan is still officially closed to tourists (hoping that will be in the past by 2023 ), and also because Qantas is therefore not really flying much to Japan on its own metal.

So my question is, should I book the seats that are available now even though they are not great for our purpose, or do you think there may be better options come up once Japan reopens and maybe QF metal is more common?

I’d be happy enough to book these and then cancel later if a better deal came up later on, but would this still be on the “free cancellation“ arrangement that QF has for international points bookings, and so no loss of points? I’m a bit confused about this as the flights are on JAL not QF and the travel date is after 31 Dec 2022 so I think these flights are probably not covered but open to advice. Cancellation points penalties would be pretty steep as it would be 4 flights per person x 3 people because the flights aren’t direct, and 6 flights per person if I added in the CBR-SYD leg on the same booking rather than booking that separately as I often do. So I don’t want to make that rookie error if I can avoid it.

Doing my head in here!

Thanks for any advice or suggestions.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Grin, unless you can charter a whole plane, no direct CBR - CTS flights on any commercial airlines exist.
QF did in the past, fly direct from SYD to CTS, but they have not done that since the pandemic started.
And even then, it was only a seasonal service.
Main questions, 2...
a.Will QF bring the SYD - CTS service back, probably not so soon.
b.will CX bright their service back, they used to fly via HKG, and could to CTS direct from there, bypassing the need to change to JL dom flight in HND/NRT, maybe, maybe not.
So, ultimately, you have to decide, start it from CBR and try with QF all the way to HND, and then domestic JL from HND/NRT to CTS?
Or pay $ for the trip from CBR to SYD about early morning, then catch the night QF flight to HND, getting to HND early morning.
Its tough guesstimating if QF will bring back the CTS flight this year, and what the prices will be, and if they do bring it back, if they will have award seats available.
QF MEL has direct flights to HND, but QF BNE are now putting pax via SYD to HND.
Sorry I can't give a definite answer, but personally, I would stick with QF via HND, and pay some sectors.
You could get some seats on the JL dom A350 if you book on the JL website, overall you will still earn some points if you go this way.
If you go for award seating, they might only put the travelling party on the JL 737s or their very old 767s.
Tell us if you want a morning dep from Aust, or a bit after midnight one.
Also not sure if JL will bring the after midnight flight from MEL.
To sum up, go via SYD to HND.
Edit: Japan rail pass shinkansen could be good too, $$$$, but you get to see the sights all the way, long trip, but maybe a worth it to be done once in a lifetime.
If you can see seats available, might as well book now, if school holidays do not rule the timing of the trip.
Not as grand, how about ZQN instead?

 

[Franky]

Grin, unless you can charter a whole plane, no direct CBR - CTS flights on any commercial airlines exist.
QF did in the past, fly direct from SYD to CTS, but they have not done that since the pandemic started.
And even then, it was only a seasonal service.
Main questions, 2...
a.Will QF bring the SYD - CTS service back, probably not so soon.
b.will CX bright their service back, they used to fly via HKG, and could to CTS direct from there, bypassing the need to change to JL dom flight in HND/NRT, maybe, maybe not.
So, ultimately, you have to decide, start it from CBR and try with QF all the way to HND, and then domestic JL from HND/NRT to CTS?
Or pay $ for the trip from CBR to SYD about early morning, then catch the night QF flight to HND, getting to HND early morning.
Its tough guesstimating if QF will bring back the CTS flight this year, and what the prices will be, and if they do bring it back, if they will have award seats available.
QF MEL has direct flights to HND, but QF BNE are now putting pax via SYD to HND.
Sorry I can't give a definite answer, but personally, I would stick with QF via HND, and pay some sectors.
You could get some seats on the JL dom A350 if you book on the JL website, overall you will still earn some points if you go this way.
If you go for award seating, they might only put the travelling party on the JL 737s or their very old 767s.
Tell us if you want a morning dep from Aust, or a bit after midnight one.
Also not sure if JL will bring the after midnight flight from MEL.
To sum up, go via SYD to HND.
Edit: Japan rail pass shinkansen could be good too, $$$$, but you get to see the sights all the way, long trip, but maybe a worth it to be done once in a lifetime.
If you can see seats available, might as well book now, if school holidays do not rule the timing of the trip.
Not as grand, how about ZQN instead?

Agree with the tip on the Rail Pass, good value, particularly if you can still get the cheaper version buying it in Australia before you leave.

 

[offshore171]

Is it the case that the primary purpose of the trip is skiing? I've skied Japan several times with the young kids in tow, so I totally get your objectives to minimise transfers and hassles.

But of course this was all pre covid. In response to your questions:

I don't think there's ever been direct flights from Canberra to Sapporo, other than maybe charters. There has been at times a seasonal direct flight from Sydney.

Have you considered flying to Tokyo and visiting one of the Nagano area resorts on the main island? One direct flight from Sydney leaves you with fewer possible things to "go wrong".

For onward travel, Nagano is only 90 minutes from Tokyo by bullet train.

There's also direct coach transfers (Nagano snow shuttle) from Haneda and Narita to the main resorts (Hakuba, Myoko, Shiga Kogen, Nozawa Onsen)

If you get one of the flights that arrive early AM, the snow shuttle will have you in the resort around lunchtime. Alternately, for flights landing in the evening, don't discount the option of laying up at the airport hilton etc, and then travelling onward the next morning. This is always a good option when travelling with kids.

Avoid January if you don't have a need to travel during AU school holidays. Feb availability is nearly always far better.

As mentioned, this is all based on pre-covid experience. YMMV

 

[sudoer]

So my question is, should I book the seats that are available now even though they are not great for our purpose, or do you think there may be better options come up once Japan reopens and maybe QF metal is more common?

Book now, you have until December to make free changes to award bookings under Fly Flexible. If the CTS direct flight comes back and has seats available you can swap across.

If the arrival timing isn't ideal you can also keep an eye on QF25 availability and switch over for a morning arrival at HND.

 

[Seat0B]

Is it the case that the primary purpose of the trip is skiing? I've skied Japan several times with the young kids in tow, so I totally get your objectives to minimise transfers and hassles.

But of course this was all pre covid. In response to your questions:

I don't think there's ever been direct flights from Canberra to Sapporo, other than maybe charters. There has been at times a seasonal direct flight from Sydney.

Have you considered flying to Tokyo and visiting one of the Nagano area resorts on the main island? One direct flight from Sydney leaves you with fewer possible things to "go wrong".

For onward travel, Nagano is only 90 minutes from Tokyo by bullet train.

There's also direct coach transfers (Nagano snow shuttle) from Haneda and Narita to the main resorts (Hakuba, Myoko, Shiga Kogen, Nozawa Onsen)

If you get one of the flights that arrive early AM, the snow shuttle will have you in the resort around lunchtime. Alternately, for flights landing in the evening, don't discount the option of laying up at the airport hilton etc, and then travelling onward the next morning. This is always a good option when travelling with kids.

Avoid January if you don't have a need to travel during AU school holidays. Feb availability is nearly always far better.

As mentioned, this is all based on pre-covid experience. YMMV

Thanks for all this kind and useful detail. We were regulars at the pre-Covid skiing in Hakuba, Nozawa Onsen and Shiga Kogen, so totally agree with all your comments about the bus, and January travel! Next trip is back to Niseko, where we haven’t skied in more than 10 yrs, and where we got a very amazing deal on accommodation for a large family group - hence the desire to fly to Sapporo. And QF definitely used to fly there before Covid.

I think I’ll take the suggestion by @sudoer and just book what’s available and cancel if need be. I wasn’t sure about the ability to cancel if something better comes along, but having read @sudoer’s reply and re-reviewed the fly flexible policy, that seems the best.

Also, I do know you can’t fly direct from CBR - but over the years I have learned that if you book CBR-wherever, you don’t have to pay extra points for the CBR-SYD leg and return the way you do if you just book SYD-wherever and then book CBR-SYD-CBR separately.

 

[Matt_01]

Cancellation points penalties would be pretty steep as it would be 4 flights per person x 3 people because the flights aren’t direct, and 6 flights per person if I added in the CBR-SYD leg on the same booking rather than booking that separately as I often do. So I don’t want to make that rookie error if I can avoid it.

As @sudoer points out above change are free until Dec 22. If you need to change past this date the change standard change fee rules may come back into play which were/are per booking, per person. It you have to make changes after the free change period ends having 1,2,3-many flight changes in the same booking makes no difference you will only have to pay the 5000 points per person each time you make a change. I hope this makes sense.

 

[Jack_OC]

Also, I do know you can’t fly direct from CBR - but over the years I have learned that if you book CBR-wherever, you don’t have to pay extra points for the CBR-SYD leg and return the way you do if you just book SYD-wherever and then book CBR-SYD-CBR separately.

Just for future reference, this is not necessarily the case. I believe that only applies if (a) both sectors are operated a carrier in the same reward table; (b) the connection time is less than 24 hours and (c) the additional sector does not push you into a different "zone" on the reward table.

For example, if you book CBR-SYD-HND and both sectors are operated by QF, there would be no additional points to pay for the CBR-SYD sector. However, if the SYD-HND sector is operated by JL, I believe the two sectors would be priced as two separate awards.

Another example of where you can get caught out is if your long haul flight is close to the limit of a particular zone. If so, adding on even a very short flight like CBR-SYD could push the total mileage into the next zone, which will push the points cost higher.

 

[sudoer]

However, if the SYD-HND sector is operated by JL, I believe the two sectors would be priced as two separate awards.

I could be wrong on this but I think it costs the whole itinerary out at the partner award rate rather than calculating as two separate awards.

 

[Matt_01]

I could be wrong on this but I think it costs the whole itinerary out at the partner award rate rather than calculating as two separate awards.

If the entire reward is on the same partner then the partner rate is used e.g. SYD-HND-LHR just with JL is 159000 points. If using different carriers they are calculated as seperate rewards e.g. SYD-HND-LHR on QF/JL the points would be 186500. Being based in ADL I run into this often as I usually have to fly to either SYD or MEL to get on the international flights and weigh up if it is better to pay for cheap Y ticket to get me there.

 

[Seat0B]

Just for future reference, this is not necessarily the case. I believe that only applies if (a) both sectors are operated a carrier in the same reward table; (b) the connection time is less than 24 hours and (c) the additional sector does not push you into a different "zone" on the reward table.

For example, if you book CBR-SYD-HND and both sectors are operated by QF, there would be no additional points to pay for the CBR-SYD sector. However, if the SYD-HND sector is operated by JL, I believe the two sectors would be priced as two separate awards.

Another example of where you can get caught out is if your long haul flight is close to the limit of a particular zone. If so, adding on even a very short flight like CBR-SYD could push the total mileage into the next zone, which will push the points cost higher.

Yes sorry - my shorthand because I know how I've previously travelled, which of course you couldn't possibly know

I was referring to my previous trips to Japan, which have always been on QF all the way, and which were not affected by the popping up a zone for the extra short flight CBR-SYD return. Sometimes I have booked the connecting legs separately because we wanted to keep options for a car or bus connection open.

So thanks for the reminder.

 

[Seat0B]

As @sudoer points out above change are free until Dec 22. If you need to change past this date the change standard change fee rules may come back into play which were/are per booking, per person. It you have to make changes after the free change period ends having 1,2,3-many flight changes in the same booking makes no difference you will only have to pay the 5000 points per person each time you make a change. I hope this makes sense.

Thanks @Matt_01. That does make sense and gives me great confidence to go ahead - I wasn't aware that the change fees were per person per booking, not per person per flight and so that is worth the risk for sure.

As I posted elsewhere previously, I used to know all this stuff straight off the top of my head - but with over 2 years of COVID induced stay at home I've forgotten everything!

 

[Jack_OC]

I could be wrong on this but I think it costs the whole itinerary out at the partner award rate rather than calculating as two separate awards.

Based on my most recent experience (which was just a few weeks ago), that’s not the case. I have a booking from MEL-SIN with QF connecting to SIN-HEL with AY (with a 5 hr transit). It priced as 2 separate awards, which of course means it cost more than if the whole itinerary was priced at the relevant partner award rate. I queried this with QF, as I also thought it should be priced as one itinerary at the partner rate, but QF told me it was definitely correct that it gets priced as two separate awards. I also tried a dummy booking late this year and the system gave the same result.

 

[Seat0B]

Update: I went to book the flights. Showing plenty of availability. Until I booked it, then up comes the "Hmm something went wrong" notice. Called, got South Africa who assured me there are no seats despite the fact that I can definitely see them Screen shots attached.

Is the best advice here HUACA and try in the morning to get Hobart?

Although this was multi city (to allow for a stop over in Sapporo for the Snow Festival on the way home), it made no difference when I just put it in as SYD-CTS-SYD. I still got the "something went wrong".

 

[Jack_OC]

Update: I went to book the flights. Showing plenty of availability. Until I booked it, then up comes the "Hmm something went wrong" notice. Called, got South Africa who assured me there are no seats despite the fact that I can definitely see them Screen shots attached.

Is the best advice here HUACA and try in the morning to get Hobart?

Although this was multi city (to allow for a stop over in Sapporo for the Snow Festival on the way home), it made no difference when I just put it in as SYD-CTS-SYD. I still got the "something went wrong".

It probably is worth the HUACA approach. However, sometimes the online booking engine does show phantom availability, so unfortunately, it is possible that what the agent said is true. I have had this experience more than once - it's extremely frustrating.

 

[gapmatt]

Ive just made a booking to Sapporo, but will be flying MEL - TPE via China Airlines (their A350 business class is excellent) to spend time with family, and then have booked flights to Sapporo with JAL.

Plenty of reward bookings to Taiwan in J, and you can redeem with qantas points

 

[encryptededdy]

Ive just made a booking to Sapporo, but will be flying MEL - TPE via China Airlines (their A350 business class is excellent) to spend time with family, and then have booked flights to Sapporo with JAL.

I love China Airlines, but sadly can't transfer Taipei right now on separate tickets (which is the likely case when booking QFF into TPE). Hopefully they announce some sort of border easing (or at least allow transit on separate tickets) soon.

 

[sudoer]

I love China Airlines, but sadly can't transfer Taipei right now on separate tickets (which is the likely case when booking QFF into TPE).

You can book JL/CI together using QFF, as long as the CI route is to/from Aus - I don't believe QFF gets access to CI awards on any other routes.

It can be a little tricky to find JL flights into TPE (most go into TSA at the moment) but it can be done like below:

Hopefully they announce some sort of border easing (or at least allow transit on separate tickets) soon.

In the past few days they've announced that PCR tests are no longer needed for transits so heading in the right direction. Is there a rule which states you can't travel on separate tickets even if you're checked through at your origin?

 

[encryptededdy]

In the past few days they've announced that PCR tests are no longer needed for transits so heading in the right direction. Is there a rule which states you can't travel on separate tickets even if you're checked through at your origin?

Turns out it's same airline only too. Per the CECC From June 25, transit passengers are allowed at Taiwan Taoyuan International Airport with thorough route and monitoring measures in place to prevent coronavirus spread

In order to minimize the risk of infection posed by transit passengers, related restrictions will be put into place. These restrictions include the following : (1) transit flights from or to China where COVID-19 continues to spread are excluded from the plan; (2) transit passengers are required to fly with the same airline (only Taiwan’s China Airlines and Eva Air and Hong Kong’s Cathay Pacific are included in the transit plan, and the list of airline companies permitted will be reviewed based on the pandemic situation and implementation of the project.); and (3) transit passengers are required to leave Taiwan within eight hours. Control concerning transit passengers’ activity areas, routes and separation from other people after disembarkation and other protective measures will also be implemented. Furthermore, meal arrangements and shopping activity of transit passengers will be monitored by designated airport personnel. The MOTC also has a response plan in place if a flight is delayed or passengers experience illness.

I know this is the "old" rules before they removed the PCR requirement and increased the time in Taiwan from 8 hours to 12 hours, but I believe this rule still exists.

The China Airlines website says this Taiwan Transit Ban Lifted!

Both flight segments for transferring in Taiwan must under the same itinerary and ticket (no separate tickets).

I think the reason for these rules is because;

Required to stay at the designated China Airlines transit area when arrive TPE airport.

Sounds like the weird transit jails like Singapore had back in the day at Changi...