Pax kicked off Air NZ flight for ignoring safety briefing

[Mattg]

I haven't seen this discussed here elsewhere yet.

A couple has apparently been kicked off an Air New Zealand flight from Wellington to Auckland after refusing to listen to the safety briefing. They were seated in the exit row.

Good on the cabin crew, I say!

Passenger thrown off Air New Zealand plane for refusing to read safety instructions card

Police called after flight delayed following refusal of woman to watch safety video and read card in exit row seat

www.theguardian.com

 

[RooFlyer]

Pity about the delay, but good on the airline!!

 

[Denali]

".... but the woman put her fingers in her ears.”

Literally? A grown coughd adult sitting there with her fingers in their ears?

 

[jb747]

Good. But it’s about time that overwing exit seats were no longer for sale to those willing to pay, but are restricted to people who can reasonably be of help.

Crew, engineers, emergency services.

Discuss......

 

[tgh]

people who can reasonably be of help..discuss….

Can of worms… discriminate against me because of age and I will sue your pants off..
Many trained first responders would die of funk faced with real in their face life threatening danger.. while the grey haired old lady may be as strong as an ox , sharp as a razor and save the ship….

 

[RooFlyer]

Crew, engineers, emergency services.

Discuss......

Ho ho, ho ....

Designate it the crew rest area? Then sell the crew bunks to replace lost revenue?

 

[p--and--t]

Good. But it’s about time that overwing exit seats were no longer for sale to those willing to pay, but are restricted to people who can reasonably be of help.

Crew, engineers, emergency services.

Discuss......

An idea, but how would you determine same?

By what magic formula will you know how a particular individual may react in a particular set of circumstances on any particular day.

I know of a mica sitting in a restaurant with partner when partner choked on some food.

Other restaurant patrons had to push the mica out of the way to save partner as the mica totally froze in shock and could not deal with the situation of someone so close emotionally who was potentially in the process of dying in front of them.

 

[dajop]

Good. But it’s about time that overwing exit seats were no longer for sale to those willing to pay, but are restricted to people who can reasonably be of help.

Crew, engineers, emergency services.

Discuss......

On at least 2/3 - or even more - of my Silk Air flights I’ve seen at least one of the cabin crew sit in one of the exit rows. Not when flight is 100% full but certainly will sit there if no one is sitting in a row on that side of the plane. And always give briefing.

 

[trooper]

There are MANY more types of people around who could "reasonably be of help". In any case I'd be quite happy to pay for an exit row seat KNOWING that I would be checked out some time between check in and departure to confirm suitability. Paying for, and being required to be suitability assessed for such seating seems like a reasonable answer.
And just BTW....The WORST placement of an eminently unsuitable person in an Exit Row I've ever seen (a morbidly obese gentleman on a LAX-SYD flight) was done BY THE QF Flight attendants. I should know... I got booted out of that row because "he couldn't fit in his seat" So lets not point the finger only at passengers please...
(I was a very new traveller back then... my reaction to such a thing NOW would be rather different)

 

[Happy Dude]

An idea, but how would you determine same?

By what magic formula will you know how a particular individual may react in a particular set of circumstances on any particular day.

I know of a mica sitting in a restaurant with partner when partner choked on some food.

Other restaurant patrons had to push the mica out of the way to save partner as the mica totally froze in shock and could not deal with the situation of someone so close emotionally who was potentially in the process of dying in front of them.

I'm sure there's plenty of similar hypothetical situations but the airlines are just trying to put those physically capable in those seats. I'm equally sure in an emergency, other pax would step up if the someone 'froze' in the moment, or worse, refused to help. By doing a pre-take off safety check, it does give the pax an opportunity to provide information to the crew relating to their abilities, potential or otherwise, in emergency situations. In this case, by refusing to undertake the safety requirements, the pax outed themselves as unlikely to be of use in an emergency. I think booting them was fair but only if they'd refused to be seated elsewhere.

 

[p--and--t]

To

I'm sure there's plenty of similar hypothetical situations but the airlines are just trying to put those physically capable in those seats. I'm equally sure in an emergency, other pax would step up if the someone 'froze' in the moment, or worse, refused to help. By doing a pre-take off safety check, it does give the pax an opportunity to provide information to the crew relating to their abilities, potential or otherwise, in emergency situations. In this case, by refusing to undertake the safety requirements, the pax outed themselves as unlikely to be of use in an emergency. I think booting them was fair but only if they'd refused to be seated elsewhere.

Agreeing with you.

The airlines can put in some rudimentary checks (regardless of making a privileged payment) to show you are physically able to carry out the tasks, not incapacitated by alcohol or others, and mentally capable of reading understanding and following the instruction card.

Anything more than that is most probably a futile exercise.

The passengers on ANZ were totally out of line and from the reports the correct actions appear to have been taken.

 

[p--and--t]

just had a thought, maybe @jb747 was in a frivolous mood and decided to throw a chip in the direction of a flock of seagulls

 

[eric2011]

It does seem a little over the top on ANZ part to actually boot them off the flight. Perhaps should have moved them to the seats of the people who replaced them in the exit row,

 

[jb747]

Well, now that everyone has had their chip....

Firstly, this does not relate to the vast majority of exits. So, unless that QF crew tossed you out of rows 13/14 on a 737, it's not relevant to this discussion. The ANZ passengers were on an aircraft, and at a door, that required specific briefing. As usual I expect there's more to the story...but if they really reached the fingers in ears stage, then perhaps they need medical attention.

Secondly...it has nothing to do with age, but a lot to do with physical capability. So, you can go through that and rule out whomever you wish.

Thirdly, and the most important point....it is about the ability to make a rational decision, with minimal information, whilst under a lot of stress. In our various discussions about aircraft incidents, comments along the lines of "but you must have panicked for a while" are quite common. But, just because you might panic in an aircraft emergency does not mean that I will. There are many people whose jobs actively vet their ability to function in times of massive stress. But, it's just as likely that a housewife has that gene, and a big tough truck driver doesn't.

How do you choose then? Well, the ability to pay extra for the seat should not matter at all. In my mind, these seats simply should not be sold.

Opening an emergency exit door could well kill everyone on board....

So, more fuel for the fire....

 

[Hvr]

Opening an emergency exit door could well kill everyone on board....

So, more fuel for the fire....

Literally.

When I sit in those seats I've read and remembered the instructions well before the FA arrives to brief us. One of the key messages being to check that it would be safe to exit before removing the door.

Another thing I remember is always being given the opportunity to move if you don't feel confident performing the duties required. I have seen it happen once where a person asked to be moved. All done quietly and as discreetly possible with absolutely no repercussions for the person involved.

The people in the original story acted like they shouldn't have been flying at all and while we only know what was reported, if I had to judge the crew involved it would be a simple well done, keep up the good work.

 

[Quickstatus]

Thirdly, and the most important point....it is about the ability to make a rational decision, with minimal information, whilst under a lot of stress. In our various discussions about aircraft incidents, comments along the lines of "but you must have panicked for a while" are quite common. But, just because you might panic in an aircraft emergency does not mean that I will. There are many people whose jobs actively vet their ability to function in times of massive stress. But, it's just as likely that a housewife has that gene, and a big tough truck driver doesn't.

So, more fuel for the fire....

The ability to perform cognitively under stress:
I was asked a question that I had not been asked before at the boarding gate. I was asked if I was happy to sit in exit row. I said yes. But then came the unexpected question: " when was the last time you sat in an exit row". Quick as a flash I said "In January when I flew MH140 to K-U-L and then the JAL codeshare to N-R-T". The correct answer was (in my view) not whether you did, but how you can quickly formulate a cogent answer under the duress of the unexpected.

They asked me exactly the same on the return flight later that day, and the answer was even easier: "today on the JQ earlybird"

I see exit row both as a privilege and a responsibility. So pay for the privilege but be prepared to save the day?. Or how else do you find appropriate people. You need people who are intelligent enough (about IQ85), physically able with no disabilities and understand and speak the common language. The problem is you wont know if you are cognitively going to be intact until you need to be cognitively intact. Training helps but does not guarantee. There are some professions where life and death emergencies are common but thats not a guarantee either after seeing many get "mushy brain" during simulations. Maybe a scheme run by the airline - training, and accreditation for passengers - for a fee (+ surcharge of course)

An A320 exit row door is 15-20kg which is about the weight of a small checked luggage. Some women can move it but barely lift that and throw it out - i can see the gender warriors get uptight about the discrimination. Try this at home. Take a 20kg suitcase, lift it and easily throw it out a window. Can you?

The WORST placement of an eminently unsuitable person in an Exit Row I've ever seen (a morbidly obese gentleman on a LAX-SYD flight) was done BY THE QF Flight attendants.

What about a sumo wrestler?. I get the point but others will come up with exceptions like this..

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Opening an emergency exit door could well kill everyone on board....

True. But I prefer to see it the other way around. It could well save people.

CASA safety bulletin 7 (updated May 2018) makes the point that 'passengers may believe falsely that aviation professionals will be able to accept full responsibility for cabin safety in any emergency'.

 

[tgh]

So it seems that the wearing hearing aids is a sufficient "disability" to disqualify the wearer from exit row "duties"..
How about the Qantas pilot who wears cic ( completely in the canal) hearing aids ?
How will his capabilities differ from the ejected supplicant for an exit row ?

 

[suze2000]

And just BTW....The WORST placement of an eminently unsuitable person in an Exit Row I've ever seen (a morbidly obese gentleman on a LAX-SYD flight) was done BY THE QF Flight attendants.

I'm curious as to why you think someone who is fat would be unable to fulfil the duties required to sit in the exit row? Are you suggesting his mind was impaired because he's fat? You can't possibly think a grown man would be too weak to operate the exit door?

 

[jb747]

It was, perhaps, a better hand grenade than I expected.

From my point of view, this is the only thing I really want..
Thirdly, and the most important point....it is about the ability to make a rational decision, with minimal information, whilst under a lot of stress.

But, how do you select for that?