Playing the lottery...LAX-BNE, LAX-SYD or SFO-SYD...Best chance for Y to J?

bethyld

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Nov 28, 2019
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Dates: 15NOV, 16NOV, or 17NOV

LAX-BNE, LAX-SYD, or SFO-SYD
FF Status: Gold
Which flight(s) look best for Y to J points upgrades for those of us in the middle of the pack? Seems like 6 of one, half dozen of another!

New employer won't spring for J so playing the lottery!

Thank you!
 
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Given you are booking the flight so close-in to departure, your best bet would be choosing a flight that has the most business class availability now. Put differently, you want flights where there is plenty of J, C, D and (ideally) I inventory available. This would indicate that not only are there plenty of seats on the plane, but revenue management at Qantas believes they won't be able to fill all of them, and hence they'll likely offer more seats for upgrades since it's better to have a filled seat with points/cash than to send it out empty. Also, you may want to consider booking Premium Economy if you can swing it for three reasons. First, it requires substantially fewer points to upgrade. Second, it puts you higher in the pecking order. Third, you'll end more status credits which may be enough in time to make you a World Platinum member. Another factor is First class availability which I know sounds weird but hear me out. Many folks will buy a business class ticket hoping they can use points to upgrade to First class. Well what happens to those business class seats when their upgrade succeeds?

Also keep in mind that you need to book a ticket that permits upgrades. Some sale fares prevent that and it will be clearly indicated during booking (i.e. avoid the E,N, O and Q fares when booking an economy fare). To my knowledge, all Premium Economy tickets are eligible for upgrades to business.

In terms of best bets, I would say QF 12 (LAX > SYD ) on the 15th is your best bet and a look at the available fares for that flight tells us why:
F3 A3 P0 J9 C9 D6 I0 U0 W9 R9 T0 Z0 Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 G0 X9 E0

F3, A3, P0 means there are 3 seats still available as a full fare First class ticket (F) or as a First class ticket (A), although no discounted first class (P0). This means that there is still a good chance some in business could get pushed up to First class potentially freeing up as many as 3 seats in business. J9, C9, D6, I0 means 9 or more seats are available in full priced business class (J9), 9 or more seats are available in business class (C9), D6 indicates 6 seats are available in discount business, and lastly I0 means 0 seats are presently available in deep discount business class. Note: These figures aren't coughulative. So F3,A3,P0 would mean a total of 3 seats in First class, those seats being able to be sold either as Full fare First class ticket (F) or a regular First class ticket. Also, U0 means there is no classic business award availability for that flight.

To finish off the alphabet soup: W9, R9, T0, Z0 indicates there are 9 or more seats available in Premium Economy. 9 or more can be sold as a full fare Premium Economy Ticket (W9), 9 or more could also be sold as a normal Premium Economy Ticket (R9), T0 indicates 0 of those seats can be sold as a discounted premium economy ticket, and Z0 indicates that 0 of the Premium Economy seats are available as a classic award.

Y9, B9, H9, K9, M9, L9, V9, S9, N9, Q9, O9, G0, X9, E0 indicates the following. There are 9 or more seats available for economy. 9 or more of which could be sold as a Flexible economy ticket (Y9, B9, H9), 9 or more of which can be sold as a regular Economy ticket (K9, M9, L9, V9, S9). 9 or more of which can also be sold as a discount economy fare (N9, O9, Q9), 9 or more of which can be offered as a classic economy award (X9), 0 of which can be sold as a deep discount economy (E0, G0).


Hope that helps.

-RooFlyer88
 
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There's J award availability on LAX-BNE now on 17/11. So that suggests it's the most likely to have classic upgrades.
 
Thanks for your replies so far! Flew LAX-SYD in J in March and BNE-LAX just 10 days ago (the route I usually take). Starting in MSO and ending up in POM so the upgrade to J makes a huge difference! Can’t even book W, R, T or Z this time 😔 only Y.
 
Thanks for your replies so far! Flew LAX-SYD in J in March and BNE-LAX just 10 days ago (the route I usually take). Starting in MSO and ending up in POM so the upgrade to J makes a huge difference! Can’t even book W, R, T or Z this time 😔 only Y.
If you have to book Y, then choose a fare that allows upgrades and ideally one in normal economy or ideally Flex as that will increase your odds. If you are booking now remember the T-80 rule that lets you select most of the preferred seats blocked off for Platinums.
 
Dates: 15NOV, 16NOV, or 17NOV

LAX-BNE, LAX-SYD, or SFO-SYD
FF Status: Gold
Which flight(s) look best for Y to J points upgrades for those of us in the middle of the pack? Seems like 6 of one, half dozen of another!

New employer won't spring for J so playing the lottery!

Thank you!
my 2 cents. looking at current availability.. my picks would be, in order:

QF16 LAX-BNE 17Nov - best inventory showing (but yes on an A330)
QF12 LAX-SYD 15Nov - up to D6 is reasonable
QF12 LAX-SYD 16Nov - a bit worse avail
QF74 SFO_SYD 16Nov - about the same

it's always going to be very tricky knowing the best option for a Gold.

the other thing to consider is the QF12's having some W availability for at least that as an option for upgrade.


good luck with your choice!

the rest are probably non starters, including SFO-SYD
 
my 2 cents. looking at current availability.. my picks would be, in order:

QF16 LAX-BNE 17Nov - best inventory showing (but yes on an A330)
QF12 LAX-SYD 15Nov - up to D6 is reasonable
QF12 LAX-SYD 16Nov - a bit worse avail
QF74 SFO_SYD 16Nov - about the same
QF16 is a bit of a gamble though. Yes if you get the upgrade that’s nice but if you don’t… you’re stuck in a cramped Y seat on an A330 with service that will be worse than their flagship QF12 to SYD on the A380
the other thing to consider is the QF12's having some W availability for at least that as an option for upgrade.
PY isn’t a bad consolation prize. Could the OP request both PY and J?
the rest are probably non starters, including SFO-SYD
Correct that’s a niche flight. No one flies to SFO, not AA certainly. Why SYD<>LAX is flagship for Qantas is a few reasons. First it is a major hub for OneWorld and particularly AA. Second, it is one of the most competitive international routes to Australia with Delta, American, United and Qantas flying it. Third LAX is a major North American hub taking you to most cities in the continent then and there. So yes Qantas has to up their game. The same cannot be said for SFO. SFO is a hub for just one airline United and arguably Star Alliance
 
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QF16 is a bit of a gamble though. Yes if you get the upgrade that’s nice but if you don’t… you’re stuck in a cramped Y seat on an A330 with service that will be worse than their flagship QF12 to SYD on the A380
"flagship" probably doesn't mean much different in Y compared to LAX-BNE imo, and the 330 at least has 2's on the sides which is potentially more appealing for Y pax on the long haul. I understand the OP is going solo, but still preferable having potentially one other person to annoy you (assuming one can secure a seat on either side per preference). OTOH 380 is 3-4-3 in Y, and the 787 is 3-3-3. Less appealing for a solo pax.

PY isn’t a bad consolation prize. Could the OP request both PY and J?

yes, this is a standard option on flights offering J and W cabins. That's why I mentioned it.
 
"flagship" probably doesn't mean much different in Y compared to LAX-BNE imo, and the 330 at least has 2's on the sides which is potentially more appealing for Y pax on the long haul. I understand the OP is going solo, but still preferable having potentially one other person to annoy you (assuming one can secure a seat on either side per preference). OTOH 380 is 3-4-3 in Y, and the 787 is 3-3-3. Less appealing for a solo pax.
While you are correct that the A330 has an advantage that there are fewer neighbours in Y, I personally found them amongst the worst seats in the whole QF fleet. Very narrow seats with not much support. This was the bird I had coming up to SIN from SYD and swear I'll never fly it again on long haul (at least in Y).

As to my remark on flagship, what I am referring to is the simple fact that they have to provide better service onboard the plane than other routes simply because there is more competition. Anyone who says that the QF experience is consistent across routes clearly haven't been flying QF enough. I have. The service of SYD > LAX (where there is loads of competition) is much different than say SYD > SCL (where there is no competition - they are the sole operator of that route).
yes, this is a standard option on flights offering J and W cabins. That's why I mentioned it.
Good to know!
 
Not my experience on routes with Australian based crews.

Having flown QF in whY SYD-EZE (just before it was discontinued), SYD-SCL-SYD, SYD-LAX-SYD, SYD-SFO-SYD, SYD-DFW-SYD cant say I've noticed any discernible difference in service from cabin crew. Certainly QF service in whY to SCL better than flying LATAM.

Of course the A380 seats are roomier than the 787-9s, and the catering ex aus better than catering ex US.

On routes with non AU based crews the service does differ. UK based crew from SIN-LHR less friendly than AUBased crew from SYD-SIN on QF1, but also people have good and bad days.

Most fun crew in whY I ever had was from SFO-SYD pre-covid. And FYI UA also fly the route.
 
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As to my remark on flagship, what I am referring to is the simple fact that they have to provide better service onboard the plane than other routes simply because there is more competition. Anyone who says that the QF experience is consistent across routes clearly haven't been flying QF enough. I have. The service of SYD > LAX (where there is loads of competition) is much different than say SYD > SCL (where there is no competition - they are the sole operator of that route).

Nope. I think YOU have perhaps not flown QF enough.

The only real differentiation QF has ever had in terms of defining a route as particularly significant is an F cabin, and that's basically been LHR and LAX (and Sunrise to JFK when it launches). Prime legacy routes (specially LHR).

Even then, having a F cabin doesn't have to mean anything that much (eg: when A380's flew QF7/8 to/from DFW, or the rare times they offered a F service on SYD-HKG.

It has absolutely zero to do with competition imo. QF don't really worry about that when it comes to product. You yourself noted disappointment between Sydney and Singapore - and QF compete with probably one of the best product offerings across all classes in SQ on a prime route. If they cared, they'd make extra effort. OTOH, on a route like LAX-SYD what's the competition? US carriers - UA, AA and DL. In Y, all 3 of them likely offer a similiar or worse product (ignoring the existince of things like Y+/MCE/Comfort+ seating which QF has no analogy to).

Anyway, QF is notorious (like most carriers tbh) for offering a very similar product (specially catering) across multiple routes - such that LAX-BNE/SYD/MEL would essentially be the same in terms of amenity with no significant difference (I grant individual seats on different aircraft such as 330/787/380 will differ a bit - as they would on many airline's differing fleet types)

The only reason you have experienced variance in your own experiences of QF Y is that it's typical QF doing what QF does best - being consistently inconsistent(tm) - rather than any specific plan on service standard.

imo.
 
Having flown QF in whY SYD-EZE (just before it was discontinued), SYD-SCL-SYD, SYD-LAX-SYD, SYD-SFO-SYD, SYD-DFW-SYD cant say I've noticed any discernible difference in service from cabin crew. Certainly QF service in whY to SCL better than flying LATAM.
Economy is a red herring. For this thread which is about flying in Business class what matters is the service in Business class to major hubs like LHR or LAX where there is competition (i.e. SYD <> LAX or SYD <> LHR).
Most fun crew in whY I ever had was from SFO-SYD pre-covid. And FYI UA also fly the route.
UA tends to have good crew although I've had the occasional crusty crew (i.e. LHR > ORD in J).

-RooFlyer88
 
IMO QF have long been quite arrogant in the transpacs to the USA - these routes have long been cash cows and for many years QF did have a huge advantage in both product and feed. Only recently have things got really serious. I mean for decades, yes UA offered LAX-SYD, later SFO-SYD and LAX-MEL sporadically but reasonbly consistently (who remembers LAX-AKL-MEL, LAX-SYD-MEL and finally LAX-MEL?). However last few years UA has totally ramped up (with all those 787's they weren't flying to asia/china) now offering multiple daily SFO-SYD, SFO-BNE, SFO-MEL, LAX-BNE, LAX-SYD, LAX-MEL and of course IAH-SYD. that's a huge capacity increase and good on them. Think what you like about UA, but they've made a huge go of it and certainly beaten away DL's token effort (and VA saw that and changed horses smartly to peg to UA).

Project sunrise will change the game again in QF's favour for the niche going nonstop to NYC, but UA offers serious capacity and price competition now for QF imo - and that's good for all of us (and UA's J is not as horrendous as it used to be, specially with consistent onboard wifi and a decent hard product).
 
IMO QF have long been quite arrogant in the transpacs to the USA - these routes have long been cash cows and for many years QF did have a huge advantage in both product and feed.
Having flown QF to the US, I would argue that the US domestics have a leg up on Qantas. Certainly the Polaris product is miles ahead of Qantas in terms of catering and seat. AA has a better check-in experience than QF (Flagship First check-in). Both AA and BA provide an arrivals lounge for their customers flying to LHR but the same cannot be said for QF flying to LHR.
Only recently have things got really serious. I mean for decades, yes UA offered LAX-SYD, later SFO-SYD and LAX-MEL sporadically but reasonbly consistently (who remembers LAX-AKL-MEL, LAX-SYD-MEL and finally LAX-MEL?). However last few years UA has totally ramped up (with all those 787's they weren't flying to asia/china) now offering multiple daily SFO-SYD, SFO-BNE, SFO-MEL, LAX-BNE, LAX-SYD, LAX-MEL and of course IAH-SYD. that's a huge capacity increase and good on them. Think what you like about UA, but they've made a huge go of it and certainly beaten away DL's token effort (and VA saw that and changed horses smartly to peg to UA).
United also has the benefit that you can use points to upgrade to business class. Yes Qantas does offer this as well, but it's not competitive. I can buy the cheapest economy ticket on United and pay 25,000 points + a small co-pay to upgrade to Polaris business. Or in my case spend 35,000 points + $600 USD co-pay to upgrade LHR > SYD (via LAX) all to business class. And guess what? In some instances I can get the upgrade confirmed at the time of booking. Similar thing for BA where you can use Avios points to confirm an upgrade to J using points whilst booking your PY ticket.
Project sunrise will change the game again in QF's favour for the niche going nonstop to NYC, but UA offers serious capacity and price competition now for QF imo - and that's good for all of us (and UA's J is not as horrendous as it used to be, specially with consistent onboard wifi and a decent hard product).
A lot of it will come down to schedule. If the sunrise JFK service lands late in the day it'll be useless for those making onward connections to BOS or MIA for instance.
 
LOL@Polaris Catering better. Oh dude....

I sat through numbers of UA transpacs this year in J and while the catering is OK in a dull midwestern kind of way, I longed for QF offerings (although UA made a decent mug of tea I must say). Onboard catering is NOT a strong point of UA's

but that's subjective of course. Having flown both products many times in J/F QF beats UA in just about all depts catering wise.

I suppose UA caters more to the North American palette perhaps.
 
Trans pacific is a bit slow at the present so closest to the middle of week should do it.
 
Economy is a red herring
That you introduced.

But I suspect I've flown QF J more than you and I found the service be it to/from DFW or LAX or LHR or SIN in J pretty consistent. Again with catering departing Aus better than catering coming into Aus. YMMV but a huge part of the soft product service quality received comes down to the attitude and politeness of the passenger.

A lot of it will come down to schedule. If the sunrise JFK service lands late in the day it'll be useless for those making onward connections to BOS or MIA for instance.

I expect the direct JFK route is primarily for those wanting to go to NY. Those wanting US domestic connections will do better to continue to fly via DFW which is a larger AA hub.
 
To be fair, Economy has it's part in this thread because IF the upgrade is unsuccessful then poor @bethyld will be stuck down the back in Y (or possibly W depending on the route/ac/avail) - this was the reason I suggested LAX-BNE - both for the seemingly better chance on 17th November, but also because if one has to be stuck in Y, they'd probably prefer the 2-4-2 layout to 3-3-3 (but that's a very personal choice too).

If you're talking transpac J service, then QF is even more consistent (yes, that word coming from me without the -in following :D ) because it's more or less same meals on all the routes and same general service standards - and given the J produce is essentially the same on 332/787/380* then it's much of a sameness if going LAX-BNE, LAX-SYD or SFO-SYD imo.

(for the record UA is pretty much the same now that all the 787's have been converted to proper Polaris from the god awful 2-2-2 they had which was.. well.. dire), but UA is not relevant here because the OP is not going to book them.

(* of course if OQL shows up then the J hard product is inferior)
 

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