Qantas’ Hidden Standby

[kangarooflyer88]

Just thought I’d share this quick item about what to do when your Qantas flight gets cancelled on the day of departure, in case anyone encounters this situation. Normally, Qantas will book you on the next available Qantas flight departing that day but what if there are no more Qantas flights with availability that day to rebook you into? The obvious answer would be to accept a booking for the following day, maybe grab an Uber home (using the $150 Uber voucher Qantas provides) or a hotel. But did you know that Qantas offers standby for full flights?



Well technically, this isn’t standby as with other airlines where you put your name on a list (prioritized by status and when you asked) and hope that your name is called at the gate. Instead, you head to the gate of a later flight that is full, identify that you were on an earlier cancelled flight and inquire if they can accommodate you on that flight. In some cases, the answer will be yes from the gate agent and they’ll move you onto that flight. In other cases you’ll have to wait for everyone to board first, in which case you are counting on someone not showing up. What’s key to stress here is it is the gate agent who has final authority on boarding. They are the ones who know for a fact how many people will be on that flight and have the power to move you onto it. So treat them nice, they might save the day!

A worked example: I was scheduled to fly QF483 to Melbourne. The flight got delayed due to weather but eventually got cancelled. Headed to the Qantas Club and had an agent look at my options. There was no availability showing that day for the remaining Qantas flights to Melbourne. I inquired about routing via Canberra, Adelaide or Brisbane, again no go as I simply wouldn’t arrive in time for the connection. So much for easy status credits! The agent then instructed me to wait for the Qantas app to rebook me (likely sometime tomorrow). Indeed 15 minutes later I received a notification that I was booked on the 8:30 AM to Melbourne. Which isn’t great since that would mean taking an Uber home (about an hour as I live in Hornsby) plus getting up early for that flight. I was thinking of packing it up and heading home but saw there were three remaining flights to Melbourne. I asked the agent if Qantas has standby and they said “no but if you wait by the gate and they have a spare seat they can’t switch you onto it”. So I tried my first flight, QF485 to Melbourne. I was waiting with three other people who had the same idea as I. Unfortunately everyone showed up. I then immediately headed to the gate of the second Melbourne flight for the gate agent to confirm to my delight that a seat opened up to Melbourne:





Morale of the story? Always check for alternate flights when you encounter a cancellation that causes your trip to blow out. Oh and take a break when a cancellation occurs. It is so easy to become emotionally involved when these things happen but if you are trying to find a solution (which most rational travellers should be doing) you need to be in the headspace to find alternatives and the patience to go through processes.

 

[Himeno]

The first of the 2 cancelled flights I've had to date (since starting to travel solo in 2004) was a QF CBR-MEL out of the old CBR terminal.
They cancelled the flight overnight, moved everyone to the earlier flight and failed to contact me (they called the wrong number).

I turned up for the original flight not knowing it was cancelled. When I got to check in, they rebooked me to the next flight as stand by. Was minutes away from getting on, when the last pax arrived to board.

After that they got a confirmed seat on an afternoon flight, and let me into the QF club (this was before I joined QFF).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

That’s the great thing with Qantas!

VA on the other hand… once boarding starts they refuse to accept any additional passengers The flight may have empty seats but they won’t even entertain helping you out. Been caught by that in several occasions with delayed VA flights. Normally airline try and help stranded or delayed pax… VA however is an exception.

 

[travelislife]

That’s the great thing with Qantas!

VA on the other hand… once boarding starts they refuse to accept any additional passengers The flight may have empty seats but they won’t even entertain helping you out. Been caught by that in several occasions with delayed VA flights. Normally airline try and help stranded or delayed pax… VA however is an exception.

Yea this is true unfortunately on VA. Just last week I specifically asked gate agent if I could wait until end of boarding to see if any no shows on full flight. No go, she said she had closed the book.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

For me the surprise was Qantas doesn’t have a formal standby system like most other airlines out there. Then again maybe this is an Aussie thing.

What I will say is that I am impressed in the flexibility and discretion Qantas gives its agents. Being able to push someone onto an earlier flight like that saved Qantas from having to pay my Uber to/from the airport and freed up a seat for someone tomorrow morning. I should also point out that this power extends beyond the gate agents. Earlier this year I was on a domestic MEL > PER flight but inquired at the QF F check in (I was Platinum at the time) whether I could be switched onto QF9 (to get into Perth earlier and to enjoy the Flounge with my partner). Not o it were they able to do it but they got me a bulkhead seat to boot!

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I suppose one question I had with this process is what the optimal strategy is. Suppose you are on a busy route like Melbourne and due to delays there are nearly 3 flights departing around the same time, how best should one solicit a rebooking? Should one choose the gate of the flight boarding next? In my case I checked ExpertFlyer and all 3 flights were zeroed out for inventory and they were all the same aircraft too (737). In my case I went by boarding time visiting the get boarding first then when that was unsuccessful the gate boarding next. One cannot be at all the gates at once (unless travelling in a group I suppose). At the same time, gates don’t seem to be staffed unless you’re maybe 15 or 20 minutes prior to boarding. Thoughts?

-RooFlyer88

 

[SYD]

For me the surprise was Qantas doesn’t have a formal standby system like most other airlines out there. Then again maybe this is an Aussie thing.

No, quite the opposite. Standby was very much a thing in the duopoly days of QF and AN. DJ (now VA) apparently was not set up for it and probably never bothered. The QF system still supports it and I’m guessing is what also allows for “Upgrade at the Gate”.

What I will say is that I am impressed in the flexibility and discretion Qantas gives its agents. Being able to push someone onto an earlier flight like that saved Qantas from having to pay my Uber to/from the airport and freed up a seat for someone tomorrow morning. I should also point out that this power extends beyond the gate agents. Earlier this year I was on a domestic MEL > PER flight but inquired at the QF F check in (I was Platinum at the time) whether I could be switched onto QF9 (to get into Perth earlier and to enjoy the Flounge with my partner). Not o it were they able to do it but they got me a bulkhead seat to boot!

Most of us actually expect that.

I don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised if JQ is equally as inflexible as VA due to their low cost IT.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

No, quite the opposite. Standby was very much a thing in the duopoly days of QF and AN. DJ (now VA) apparently was set up for it and probably never bothered. The QF system still supports it and I’m guessing is what also allows for “Upgrade at the Gate”.

If I may ask, how did the old Qantas standby system work?

Most of us actually expect that.

Expect is a relative term. As a Canadian where you could same day stand by and same day change to earlier flights on the likes of United or Air Canada, then yes that’s a bit of a glaring omission. But I suspect for some this concept of there being any sort of standby to get onto a full flight is a revelation particularly during cancellations where it can be the difference between departing that day versus departing the next day.

I don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised if JQ is equally as inflexible as VA due to their low cost IT.

Yes but does JQ operate multiple flights daily to a given destination from Sydney? Presumably if they did your luggage would go missing since their system cannot handle connecting flights

-RooFlyer88

 

[SYD]

If I may ask, how did the old Qantas standby system work?

I never did it but my understanding is you could buy a “standby” ticket and go to the airport and wait in a holding pen.

It might have been HLO. I don’t recall.

 

[DAC1]

Qantas also has a standby system for staff travel.

 

[p--and--t]

If I may ask, how did the old Qantas standby system work?

Expect is a relative term. As a Canadian where you could same day stand by and same day change to earlier flights on the likes of United or Air Canada, then yes that’s a bit of a glaring omission. But I suspect for some this concept of there being any sort of standby to get onto a full flight is a revelation particularly during cancellations where it can be the difference between departing that day versus departing the next day.

Yes but does JQ operate multiple flights daily to a given destination from Sydney? Presumably if they did your luggage would go missing since their system cannot handle connecting flights

-RooFlyer88

I never did it but my understanding is you could buy a “standby” ticket and go to the airport and wait in a holding pen.

It might have been HLO. I don’t recall.

IIRC For a while in duopoly days non guaranteed seat tickets were issued at 25% discount if you were prepared to go to the airport and wait in a holding area for your name to be called if their was a spare seat at final call to your intended destination. If you were lucky you would be on the next flight, if extremely unlucky you went home after the last flight and came back 6am the next day to repeat the process.

They also had mystery flights. Similar to standby but deeply discounted nominal fare. You would rock up to the airport before the appointed time (8am?) and they would put you on the first plane to anywhere that had a spare seat with a guarantee they would get you back same day with x hours for you to enjoy at the destination. For example you could rock up at ADL and end up variously in ASP, OOL, MEL, SYD, DWN etc etc for the day and be home in your own bed for a fraction of the usual cost. People would often buy mystery flights as birthday presents etc. IIRC they wouldn't offer PER because it was too hard to get you back same day.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

IIRC For a while in duopoly days non guaranteed seat tickets were issued at 25% discount if you were prepared to go to the airport and wait in a holding area for your name to be called if their was a spare seat at final call to your intended destination. If you were lucky you would be on the next flight, if extremely unlucky you went home after the last flight and came back 6am the next day to repeat the process.

They also had mystery flights. Similar to standby but deeply discounted nominal fare. You would rock up to the airport before the appointed time (8am?) and they would put you on the first plane to anywhere that had a spare seat with a guarantee they would get you back same day with x hours for you to enjoy at the destination. For example you could rock up at ADL and end up variously in ASP, OOL, MEL, SYD, DWN etc etc for the day and be home in your own bed for a fraction of the usual cost. People would often buy mystery flights as birthday presents etc. IIRC they wouldn't offer PER because it was too hard to get you back same day.

Thanks for sharing what it was like when Qantas offered standby. It was interesting to see the types of unique travel products they offered when they had the system. No doubt some of us wouldn't mind taking a mystery flight or being standby (especially if the price is right!).

Getting back to a point I raised earlier, is there an optimal strategy for using this "hidden" standby technique during IRROPS, particularly when there are multiple upcoming flights to your destination (but without any seats available)? For instance, is simply going to the gate of the next flight to your destination that is boarding ideal or are there more clever ways of securing a seat should availability pop up?

-RooFlyer88

 

[p--and--t]

Getting back to a point I raised earlier, is there an optimal strategy for using this "hidden" standby technique during IRROPS

Luckily I haven't experienced a QF dom IRROPS for many years and prior to that I was top tier elite and was readily accommodated where possible on either of the major carriers.

If it was to occur, I would ask at the lounge first (still have QC) and if only offered next day and I knew there was 1 or more flights to my desired destination, i would do what you did; rock up at the gate lounge and try and sweet talk a last minute seat.

However, it would have to be HLO otherwise you would be out of luck. Nobody is likely to try and negotiate checked luggage change or unaccompanied luggage for you at final boarding call.

 

[justinbrett]

Qantas does still have a similar program called Waitlist which is processed 8 hours before domestic flights (24 hours for intl).

https://www.qantas.com/agencyconnect/au/en/policies/service/service-request-policies/automatic-waitlist-clearance.html

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Luckily I haven't experienced a dom IRROPS for many years and prior to that I was top tier elite and was readily accommodated where possible on either of the major carriers.

If it was to occur, I would ask at the lounge first (still have QC) and if only offered next day and I knew there was 1 or more flights to my desired destination, i would do what you did; rock up at the gate lounge and try and sweet talk a last minute seat.

However, it would have to be HLO otherwise you would be out of luck. Nobody is likely to try and negotiate checked luggage change or unaccompanied luggage for you at final boarding call.

Short of having access to live revenue management and pax numbers, not sure there’s any way except to make an educated guess and try your chances.

The numbers of pax willing to ‘standby’ at the gate is probably low. If there are three flights leaving at almost the same time perhaps anyone waiting will go to the first flight… but then the first flight might have two no-shows and the second one flies full. It’s possible the gate agent at the first flight might be able to loo, at the second or subsequent flights and give you an idea.

I don’t think there’s any real way to know.

 

[p--and--t]

The numbers of pax willing to ‘standby’ at the gate is probably low

My hunch is 90% of the population will shrug their shoulders and accept what they are told (especially if on red sale non changeable fare), 9% will do a DYKWIA and may or may not get an improved result and less than 1% will think out of the box and go to gate on the off chance.

 

[BenP]

My hunch is 90% of the population will shrug their shoulders and accept what they are told (especially if on red sale non changeable fare), 9% will do a DYKWIA and may or may not get an improved result and less than 1% will think out of the box and go to gate on the off chance.

Prior to reading this thread I would have been in the 90% regardless of the fare but I would probably now consider going to the gate and asking

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Qantas does still have a similar program called Waitlist which is processed 8 hours before domestic flights (24 hours for intl).

Good to see they do have a standby program, albeit it wouldn't have been of any use in my situation where my evening departure was cancelled and the next 3 flights were departing within hours of that flight. Where this could be useful (I suppose) would be a situation where Qantas cancels your flight maybe a day out, and rebooks you on a flight the following day but there are flights to your destination later that day (but it's full). Then maybe they could put you on the waitlist.

Short of having access to live revenue management and pax numbers, not sure there’s any way except to make an educated guess and try your chances.

Yeah, when ExpertFlyer shows you inventory is zeroed out, I couldn't see any rhyme or reason other than to simply try gates based on boarding time. Again, it would seem that being at the gate about 20 minutes prior to boarding should be when you start to see gate agents appear who may be able to accommodate you. So something to keep in mind. In other words, if the boarding time is 7:20 PM, you'll want to rock up at 7 PM. And that is the boarding time as it appears on the airport screen since obviously delayed flights will have a revised boarding time.

The numbers of pax willing to ‘standby’ at the gate is probably low. If there are three flights leaving at almost the same time perhaps anyone waiting will go to the first flight… but then the first flight might have two no-shows and the second one flies full. It’s possible the gate agent at the first flight might be able to loo, at the second or subsequent flights and give you an idea.

Ahh that's an interesting strategy. Ask the gate agent of the next flight to your destination if they can look up the loads and give you insight on the subsequent flights. Presumably what they can access from the gate will be the most accurate insight into loads for flights departing within the next couple of minutes/hours? Then again, a full flight doesn't mean there's no availability. All it takes is one passenger to misconnect or decided to cancel out their booking and you've got a ticket to ride!

However, it would have to be HLO otherwise you would be out of luck. Nobody is likely to try and negotiate checked luggage change or unaccompanied luggage for you at final boarding call.

In my case I had a checked bag. I was warned the bag wouldn't likely make it (it didn't end up arriving) but was told it wouldn't matter either way since the baggage system in Melbourne is stuffed up anyway. Indeed, when I arrived at Melbourne my AirTag showed the bag was still in Sydney, so I headed straight to baggage services to get the bag delivered to my hotel. I asked for a amenity kit but was told they ran out as quite a few passengers had lost bags in Melbourne yesterday.

My hunch is 90% of the population will shrug their shoulders and accept what they are told (especially if on red sale non changeable fare), 9% will do a DYKWIA and may or may not get an improved result and less than 1% will think out of the box and go to gate on the off chance.

I think your assessment is correct here. 90% of folks simply accepted the Uber voucher and went home. I didn't see any DYKWIA types (that's more of a U.S. thing I'd argue). Importantly, I was never told of this option to try my luck at the gates by Qantas staff (presumably they don't want passengers to know because the odds are slim and they don't want to hassle already stressed gate agents with stressed out travellers trying to get on board). In my case, I was one of three people who were hovering by the gate to get on the next flight, the other two seemed to be novice travellers (e.g. one was a Qantas LTB member). After we had no success on the first flight, we split up. Myself and one gent went to the next flight (QF493) whereas there was a lady who went to the later departure (QF499). Since I immediately headed to the QF493 gate and waited patiently for the agent, I lucked out and got a boarding pass for that flight. I'm not sure about the fate of the gent or lady (hopefully they got a seat and learned a valuable lesson that day).

-RooFlyer88

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Prior to reading this thread I would have been in the 90% regardless of the fare but I would probably now consider going to the gate and asking

If sharing my experience has helped anyone avoid the hassle of having a flight disruption on Qantas (e.g., having to catch a flight the following day), then this post was a worthwhile one to share with the community.

Another point and it’ll sound counterintuitive is your rights to rebooking depend on the itinerary you are booked on. International flights departing Australia are generally subject to the Montreal Convention of which article 19 states that during a disruption the airline is liable for up to $7,000 USD in damages meaning for all intents and purposes if your Qantas (or JetStar or Virgin) flight gets disrupted and it was part of an international itinerary they need to put you on the next flight of any airline even competitors. However, there may be instances where you actually want to accept the delay. Case in point flying Frankfurt to Sydney (connecting in Helsinki and Singapore) my last flight with Qantas was delayed by 14 hours. Now on arriving in Singapore I could have well demanded they put me on the next flight to minimize the delay. However, EU261 states that Qantas would owe me €600 in compensation should I land in Sydney 4 hours later than scheduled. Hence I accepted the delay to collect the money.

-RooFlyer88

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If sharing my experience has helped anyone avoid the hassle of having a flight disruption on Qantas (e.g., having to catch a flight the following day), then this post was a worthwhile one to share with the community.

Another point and it’ll sound counterintuitive is your rights to rebooking depend on the itinerary you are booked on. International flights departing Australia are generally subject to the Montreal Convention of which article 19 states that during a disruption the airline is liable for up to $7,000 USD in damages meaning for all intents and purposes if your Qantas (or JetStar or Virgin) flight gets disrupted and it was part of an international itinerary they need to put you on the next flight of any airline even competitors. However, there may be instances where you actually want to accept the delay. Case in point flying Frankfurt to Sydney (connecting in Helsinki and Singapore) my last flight with Qantas was delayed by 14 hours. Now on arriving in Singapore I could have well demanded they put me on the next flight to minimize the delay. However, EU261 states that Qantas would owe me €600 in compensation should I land in Sydney 4 hours later than scheduled. Hence I accepted the delay to collect the money.

-RooFlyer88

Re bolded text… incorrect. There is NO obligation that you mention.

To escape liability under MC99 the airline just has to show it took reasonable measures. And weather related issue - unlike EC261/UK261- are also considered excuses to obligations under MC99.

With the recent weather in MEL/SYD/BNE… it’s highly unlikely MC99 would cover anything.

EC261 and MC99 have completely different thresholds… which is exactly the reason why EC261 was introduced.