Qantas BSI vs Virgin BSI

[travelislife]

I had my first flight today on Qantas' Boeing 737 BSI. I have been doing MEL-ADL-MEL pretty regularly lately on very old pretty average planes, so it was nice today to get a new one and I have to say that it was great. It was a full flight and it was the first time I have walked through a 737 domestic Business Class and actually wished I was there over my exit row seat (especially when I had a rather large gentleman sitting next to me).

But my biggest point here (and the reason I put Virgin in the title) is I think Virgin have made a massive mistake leaving out seatback IFE. I loved that it was on demand and gate to gate. I then took stock of people around me during the flight, going through the rows and without exaggerating 5 out of 6 people in each row on average had the Qantas headphones on. Are Qantas going to be retrofitting any of their planes or is it only new ones coming on board that will be in this configuration?

This thread isn't meant to be a Qantas vs Virgin bashing, just my first hand experience today and the basic stats I took on the amount of people making use of seat back IFE.

 

[bucketlist]

Hi Travelife. Not sure what te 737 BSI is but recently caught a QF plane that had leather seats (or something like it). Didn't even notice the IEF but would this be the same model? Guess I took notice as while it all looked new, the business seats looked smaller and the economy had no coat hook.

 

[dfcatch]

The QF 737s I've been on with the new IFE has been 95% utilized gate to gate IME.

I agree with you... Only time will tell if Virgin got this right, but my initial thoughts are that Virgin made a massive mistake and "could have" got a big jump on QF here.

 

[pauly7]

I couldn't care less about the BSI flashy lights part of the VA and QF next gen 737's but totally agree the gate to gate onQ is fantastic.

 

[Must...Fly!]

It really is an excellent IFE system that Panasonic have made.

 

[markis10]

Virgin were not in a position to put IFE in those planes when they were ordered, and some of us remember the debacle surrounding the first hasty implementation of VOD by QF. I would rather know I have no options and cater for that with my own gear than get onboard and be told that it is faulty and have no recourse. Virgins IFE future will be a lot clearer once the new A330s arrive

 

[VHOEJ]

QF won't retrofit the other 737s to have the same IFE. The cost is just too astronimical - it has been examined so many times but the bill is just too much. If they only had 5-10 aircraft to do, it might be more realistic but they have too many 738s for it to be done.

 

[Justchecking]

QF won't retrofit the other 737s to have the same IFE. The cost is just too astronimical - it has been examined so many times but the bill is just too much. If they only had 5-10 aircraft to do, it might be more realistic but they have too many 738s for it to be done.

This discussion has been done t death already in the Virgin forum. Yes pax really love seatback IFE once onboard. Yes AFFrrs really love onQ. But do they love it enough to make IFE a purchasing decision? Or are schedule and price still the major deciding factors when buying a ticket?

This kind of IFE costs a million dollars per aircraft installation to retrofit. But does having it equal more than a million dollars in increased profit from ticket sales? Given that both Virgin and AirNZ have decided to not go with seatback IFE on short haul, (at least that we know of at this
moment), one may surmise that maybe the investment doesnt pay. Massive mistake? Only if it equals more than a million dollars in lost revenue per aircraft. Otherwise its a good business decision even it if its not a popular one.

 

[lovestotravel]

This discussion has been done t death already in the Virgin forum. Yes pax really love seatback IFE once onboard. Yes AFFrrs really love onQ. But do they love it enough to make IFE a purchasing decision? Or are schedule and price still the major deciding factors when buying a ticket?

This kind of IFE costs a million dollars per aircraft installation to retrofit. But does having it equal more than a million dollars in increased profit from ticket sales? Given that both Virgin and AirNZ have decided to not go with seatback IFE on short haul, (at least that we know of at this
moment), one may surmise that maybe the investment doesnt pay. Massive mistake? Only if it equals more than a million dollars in lost revenue per aircraft. Otherwise its a good business decision even it if its not a popular one.

Given that cost of a flight on Qantas and Virgin is now pretty much the same, Qantas gives you a free meal and IFE either via Seatback or overhead monitors!

 

[lovestotravel]

Virgin were not in a position to put IFE in those planes when they were ordered, and some of us remember the debacle surrounding the first hasty implementation of VOD by QF. I would rather know I have no options and cater for that with my own gear than get onboard and be told that it is faulty and have no recourse. Virgins IFE future will be a lot clearer once the new A330s arrive

Future IFE....... It's not going to be seatback or they would have been putting it on the refitted 737's.....

 

[markis10]

Future IFE....... It's not going to be seatback or they would have been putting it on the refitted 737's.....

you are wrong, as you will find out in March!

 

[Justchecking]

Given that cost of a flight on Qantas and Virgin is now pretty much the same, Qantas gives you a free meal and IFE either via Seatback or overhead monitors!

Yes. But as I said before is it costing Virgin more than a mill in lost revenue per aircraft? Because thats the break-even point for the investment of matching QFs product. Some people will buy a QF fare based on IFE and a meal, but will the majority of pax do that? Since Virgin have been doing ok in ticket sales with no free IFE over the past ten years and fare prices only marginally cheaper than QF (even before the changes) it seems to suggest that IFE isnt as big an issue as the AFF crowd make out. I dont doubt that its
vastly important to the constituents of this exclusive club, but to call it a massive mistake isnt the next logical step.

I can see why they didnt rush out and spend an extra mill per aircraft when that money would
have a greater impact on the bottom line as an investment in a lounge network, cabin upgrades and improved onboard catering. There is no end to the list of things people want for free, its a bottomless pit that may or may not pay its way on the bottom line. I still dont think it was a bad decision considering the other improvements made. I'd rather have a free cuppa onboard than
a selection of useless channels I wont bother watching.

Lots of short haul aircraft around he globe have no seatback IFE and somehow nobody moans about it.

 

[777]

you are wrong, as you will find out in March!

Do tell... I know the A330s will have RED or similar (has been announced) but no hint that it will be expanded onto the 737 fleet?

[Although i have suspected that some kind AVOD may find it's way onto the ex Pac Bro fleet short haul international fleet given pending announcements about the product, the lack of refits, and the need for better alignment with ANZ]

 

[nlagalle]

QF won't retrofit the other 737s to have the same IFE. The cost is just too astronimical - it has been examined so many times but the bill is just too much. If they only had 5-10 aircraft to do, it might be more realistic but they have too many 738s for it to be done.

I thought they were re-fitting the existing 737-800's?

 

[markis10]

Do tell... I know the A330s will have RED or similar (has been announced) but no hint that it will be expanded onto the 737 fleet?

[Although i have suspected that some kind AVOD may find it's way onto the ex Pac Bro fleet short haul international fleet given pending announcements about the product, the lack of refits, and the need for better alignment with ANZ]

I was referencing the suggestion that the A330s won't be seat back IFE, as you say it's already been announced with the reference point of March being the intro into the domestic fleet of the new A330s, I expect the second batch of 737 orders will also be factory fitted with seat back solutions.

 

[lovestotravel]

Yes. But as I said before is it costing Virgin more than a mill in lost revenue per aircraft? Because thats the break-even point for the investment of matching QFs product. Some people will buy a QF fare based on IFE and a meal, but will the majority of pax do that? Since Virgin have been doing ok in ticket sales with no free IFE over the past ten years and fare prices only marginally cheaper than QF (even before the changes) it seems to suggest that IFE isnt as big an issue as the AFF crowd make out. I dont doubt that its
vastly important to the constituents of this exclusive club, but to call it a massive mistake isnt the next logical step.

I can see why they didnt rush out and spend an extra mill per aircraft when that money would
have a greater impact on the bottom line as an investment in a lounge network, cabin upgrades and improved onboard catering. There is no end to the list of things people want for free, its a bottomless pit that may or may not pay its way on the bottom line. I still dont think it was a bad decision considering the other improvements made. I'd rather have a free cuppa onboard than
a selection of useless channels I wont bother watching.

Lots of short haul aircraft around he globe have no seatback IFE and somehow nobody moans about it.

So you know the exact costing of the IFE ?
Ticket sales mean nothing, it's about profit
Yep it's a massive mistake
Free cup of tea vs a TV, not sure how you'd pick a free cup of tea over that...

 

[dfcatch]

Lots of short haul aircraft around he globe have no seatback IFE and somehow nobody moans about it.

You're correct - but to a vast proportion of the travelling public - it forms a large part of their "experience" and they will make carrier decisions based on this.

 

[lovestotravel]

You're correct - but to a vast proportion of the travelling public - it forms a large part of their "experience" and they will make carrier decisions based on this.

Indeed, I have heard my people complain/discuss/ask me about when they went to NZ, that one plane felt nice and new and had "little TVs" and the other one felt like the plane they were on when they were a kid...

Of course the TV one was an Air NZ A320 with IFE and Pacific Blue was the plane stuck in the 80's...

They all said they wouldn't fly Pacific Blue again!

 

[dfcatch]

Indeed, I have heard my people complain/discuss/ask me about when they went to NZ, that one plane felt nice and new and had "little TVs" and the other one felt like the plane they were on when they were a kid...

Of course the TV one was an Air NZ A320 with IFE and Pacific Blue was the plane stuck in the 80's...

They all said they wouldn't fly Pacific Blue again!

Another example I'm very familiar with is routes flown by both AC and UA - people will choose AC almost everytime hands down.

IFE is IME the most oft-quoted reason.

 

[Coathanger]

Given that QF don't have their entire 738 fleet equipped with AVOD how does your average traveller know if their plane will have it in advance?

Yes, IFE would be a factor in the decision process (though the shorter the flight, the lower the weighting I would imagine) but only if it's predictable. Right now the only domestic fleet type on QF that have guaranteed AVOD IFE is the A330-200 and the 744 that does the daily SYD-PER.

If I was deciding between QF and DJ and everything else being equal I wouldn't pick QF on the basis of my 738 maybe having AVOD IFE for a 90 minute flight.