Qantas F/F award tickets – are they really worth it ?

[busker]

Qantas F/F award tickets – are they really worth it ?

Circumstances for individuals are different, but is it really worth using points for the so-called ‘free’ Qantas F/F tickets using F/F points?

Points may be fine when used for upgrades, but for a point-to-point economy class seat, I just cannot see the value.

Help me along if I have missed some hidden benefits.

Constructed the following straightforward Qantas & Partner Classic return award ticket using QF suggested routing and selected the lowest F/F points cost:
BNE-SIN-LHR-CPH – CPH-HEL-SIN-BNE
QF F/F Points required:.......................140,000
+ Charges/Taxes:............................. A$1,121

A couple of alternative options to reach the same end-point destination are:
FinnAir : ..........................................A$1,892 incl. charges/taxes
Singapore Air (my preferred airline).....A$1,848 incl. charges/taxes

Taking into account that the 140,000 QF points represent a converted value of A$966 in Woolworth’s gift cards, the ‘free QF ticket’ comes at a price @ A$2,087 (A$1,121+A$966).
In my view, this is not an attractive option.

Add to that some of the benefits using the ‘cash for ticket’ could include the following:
* Free to choose your preferred airline.
* Earning F/F points on a purchased ticket vs. a 'free ticket'
– Finn Air is a QF partner. The WW gift card value of points earned (~22,000+) is ~A$150.
- SQ - I am already an SQ KrisFlyer member and can use the points with that airline.
* Earning credit card points on the larger $ amount charged (Fare + Taxes vs. Taxes only)
* SQ currently offer 30kgs checked luggage (vs. QF 23kgs)

Open for anyone to shoot the argument down in flames using valid counter arguments.
Cheers.

 

[tuppaware]

You are traveling through some of the Airports with the High taxes. So I'd expect tax to be high there.

 

[Moopere]

I'm glad you've asked this question and will be interested in the informed replies. Like you, I've been trying hard to see value in the classic awards but with taxes and surcharges being higher in many cases than the actual flight component of the cost, I have yet to find a single instance where it seems worthwhile to me to use classic awards.

Upgrades or even JASA's seem to redeem better.

I have a suspicion that if you very carefully locate some specific classic routes that the value can be very high indeed - but I've yet to randomly bump into one of these myself.

In your example above, 140K for $966 of value = 0.7c / point.... there is no way on earth I'd redeem QFF points for so little.

 

[Stephen65]

You get a better return using FF points for F and J travel as while a J seat may cost double the points it's usually going to cost a lot more than double to buy.

 

[futaris]

You'll probably find that the Singapore Air fare doesn't earn Frequent Flyer points, and that the Finnair fare (is in a cheap fare bucket and) only earns 25% or 50% of the miles in the QANTAS Frequent Flyer program, according to the Airline Earning Table.

That being said, the equivalent Krisflyer award BNE-SIN-CPH in Economy Saver is 80,750 Krisflyer + 706.32 AUD taxes.

Doubt you'll get better value with any Oceania or Asian Pacific Frequent Flyer Program. Try buying miles with US Airways, or using AAdvantage redemptions.

 

[Pushka]

I was lucky to get a Classic Award, premium economy one way: Adelaide - Heathrow for July next year, with $320 taxes to pay and 96,000. One way fare would have been around $3500. So a saving of $3200 approx. Obviously I booked 12 months in advance.

But, couldnt get a return flight on the day I wanted, actually, not even the week I could have returned. they just never became available. Eventually I purchased an Any seat reward, PE, for $1800. Still a savings on the fare of $3500 (I know the purchase price because my Husband paid for his ticket)

One thing I did see, which was pretty rank of Qantas, was that when searching for PE tickets around the date, it would give the option of an economy and a PE purchase. Economy cost was 72,000 points from memory, and PE was 96,000 points. But when you clicked on the actual flights to select Premium economy flights, a little warning came up to say:
Sector 1 - LHR - HKG in Economy
Sector 2 - HKG - Melbourne in Economy

So the whole damn flight was in Economy, not PE, but they were going to deduct PE points! Scam. Imagine if you didnt see the warning, spent the PE points, rocked up at the airport and THEN you found out you were booked in economy!:evil:

 

[busker]

Futaris:
“the Finnair fare (is in a cheap fare bucket and) only earns 25% or 50% of the miles in the QANTAS Frequent Flyer program”
Futaris, you are right regarding reduced points earned on FinnAir.
The FinnAir option is an AY/QF combo –
BNE-SIN/R with QF – Base rate = 1
SIN-HEL-CPH/R with AY – Base rate = .5 - a SINner going to HELl

“You'll probably find that the Singapore Air fare doesn't earn Frequent Flyer points”
Fares are eligible for KrisFlyer mileage accrual.
Some of the other current promo SQ ticket conditions:
- Return Economy Class and include the air ticket price, associated taxes, levies and surcharges.
- All prices include an AUD 25 service fee for payments made by credit card or PayPal.
- Singapore Airlines' 'Future Proof Price Guarantee' only applies to fares to Singapore Airlines' 13 online European destinations (Istanbul not included), as well as Houston, New York (JFK) and Sao Paulo.
- A 30 kg baggage allowance is only applicable for travel to Singapore Airlines' 13 online European destinations
- Singapore Stopover Holiday (SSH) and Asia Side-Trip offers may be purchased in conjunction with Singapore Airlines Early Bird fares.
- SSH offer is valid for one-night at $AUD1 per person in a twin-share room (i.e. two passengers travel[l]ing together) in category 'A' hotels, and applies on the outbound journey only.

[These SSH’s are a great concept – free transfer from/to Changi, free bus around the city, entry to some of the top attractions in Singers etc. etc.]

Moopere:
“In your example above, 140K for $966 of value = 0.7c / point.... there is no way on earth I'd redeem QFF points for so little”
Moopere, I am open to suggestions regarding better value for my QFF points.
As long as it is not a suggestion to aquire more electronic gadgets from the Qantas shop. I have piles of that besides the QF shop items are grossly overpriced relative to in store prices around town – IMHO.
Cheers.

 

[Moopere]

Moopere:
“In your example above, 140K for $966 of value = 0.7c / point.... there is no way on earth I'd redeem QFF points for so little”

Moopere, I am open to suggestions regarding better value for my QFF points.
As long as it is not a suggestion to aquire more electronic gadgets from the Qantas shop. I have piles of that besides the QF shop items are grossly overpriced relative to in store prices around town – IMHO.
Cheers.

Heh


No value to be had in the QF shop I don't think.

I won't part with my hard earned QFF points for less than 3c each. I know some folks accrue vast seas of points ever year and I'm always on the lookout for opportunities - as it stands though, I struggle to get enough useful points. When I get a few I need to redeem at a high rate to make this 'game' worthwhile for me.

So, to give a random example:

$600 return QF fare from PER-MEL in discount Y. I haven't checked today, but this was the rough pricing about a weeek ago if you carefully selected a flight.

Upgrades offered by QF to J class on these discount tickets is 16K each way = 32K return. A full ticket J fare PER-MEL return is about $2600 again, if you select reasonably carefully.

So, trade 32K points for roughly 2K$ saved = 6.3c / point. The downside of upgrades is that you don't earn J class SC's or points, which then reduces the value of your trade (and yes, I do work this out on a spreadsheet when I'm at home ... sad eh??)

However, a straight up JASA PER-MEL is 46K points one way, again, if the flight is carefully selected. 92K return. So this is 2.8c / point but you also earn some FF points back which nudges the value over 3c/point + full J SC's are earned.

Its open for dicsussion of course on whether domestic J is worthwhile at all, but a similar idea can generally be applied across different routes and tickets.

Unfortunately, I agree with your OP, I can't seem to fit my calculations favourably around classic awards ... not yet. I keep searching though.

 

[PlutekPlutek]

I think you will be lucky to get the return trip to Europe to come in below $1000 in taxes. Given the vast (not) european costs to connect through, it's hard to avoid Heathrow, or you do have to spend the time looking for connections via Helsinki and Shanghai/hong kong/Bangkok or Singapore. You have to fly at least three one world carriers to fit in the 140k points (pretty much can forget the 128k point return unless you want to go via Heathrow) and that further limits the options and you have to do a lot more juggling. Velocity on the other hand seems a lot cheaper. I'm mostly interested in going Warsaw-Sydney-Warsaw or vice versa. With QF the best I've been able to find was 140k points plus ~$750 in taxes.

With Velocity I can get an economy award flight Dublin-Abu dhabi-Sydney return for 127k + ~$130 in taxes, and buy a separate Warsaw-Dublin return for $150 with Aer Lingus That's a total of less than $300 plus more or less the same number of points.

Qantas is a rip off when it comes to taxes. I have the points, but it makes almost no sense to redeem because of the night taxes and for the reasons others have given before. My preference now for all future work related travel is Virgin.

No wonder the QFF business is one of the (if not the most) profitable parts of Qantas.

 

[aikman]

I too have struggled to find good value QFF redemptions. I thought redeeming during holiday periods would be good value except QF is so tight with their award seats, they release very few, if any, international award seats during peak periods, even a year out. SQ doesn't seem to have a problem releasing award tickets in Dec/Jan. Been also looking at tickets to JNB for next winter and even that far ahead award seats are only available Mon to Thurs.

I think the only good value Y redemptions these days is for when you only need one way flights, using the RTW for exotic destinations or using American Airlines where there is no fuel surcharge.

For now Velocity points seem much better value, lower redemption rates and no fuel surcharge on Etihad.

 

[casanovawa]

I myself would find one of thos 140k rewards a waste if you were only going to fly to one point which you seem to be indicating (CPH)???

I recently flew a 140k OW award redemption and flew SYD-EZE (stop)-made my own way to Rio (GIG)-MIA-ORF (stop)-made my own way to Chicago (ORD)-LHR-ARN (stop)-made my own way to Berlin (TXL)-LHR-FCO (stop) made my own way to Naples (NAP)-MAD-BCN-MAD-JNB (stop)-SYD...

I originally booked a pretty similar 140k award itinerary and it was only bit over $500 taxes and charges in FEB this year, about a month later i called back to change it to this routing only 2 fuel hikes had occurred in the mean time and this itinerary came back at about $817... I flew QF, LA, AA, BA and IB...

So i figured this was reasonable value for money compared to what i might have been able to purchase outright... I see some travel agents offer RTW fares for like 4 stops or so for around $2000-2200 or so but not sure if they have 35k mileage on them and not sure if i would earn any FF points from them either...

It would have been better value at the original $500 taxes and surcharge rate for sure, but I would probably still book another one of these but certinaly not that amount of points and real $'s to just fly to one destination and back... Its a bit hard to add up exactly how much it cost me all up as i had about 60k QFF points in the kitty, paid $89 for WWEDR cc 16k points, paid about $95 for ANZ CC 20k points, borrowed 50k points from my sister which i have to pay back to her if i can ever get the friggin 40k points off One Life insurance that only cost me about $130 or so??? All up i tended to think it cost me about $1500 maybe as some of the points in my account were from work, some from a previous QF flight to Europe... In my chopping and changing i burned about 18,000QF points as well which pissed me off as phone booking and assistance charges were levied first up and then for changes!!!!

Anyway it seemed roughly ok and i would do another one, short haul probably not and wouldn't waste my points on domestic J, but then i have never flown J in my life (hopefully next year fingers crossed) Each to their own though...

 

[JohnK]

Constructed the following straightforward Qantas & Partner Classic return award ticket using QF suggested routing and selected the lowest F/F points cost:
BNE-SIN-LHR-CPH – CPH-HEL-SIN-BNE
QF F/F Points required:.......................140,000
+ Charges/Taxes:............................. A$1,121

So what has happened here is the award booking engine has converted into a Oneworld award as you have 2 airlines other than QF in the booking.

If you want to get most value out of that award then add some more stops in Asia or even the USA. Personally I value a Oneworld at ~$4,500 or 2.5c/QFF point. Yes I know it is not quite the same as a LONE4 but a LONE4 not maxed out is still going to cost ~$4,500 + taxes and surcharges in high season.

Another option could be to go BNE-FRA return on QF for 128,000 QFF points and ~$810 and with the money saved pick up a cheap return flight FRA-CPH.

 

[cove]

Moopere it is an interesting exercise redeeming points to extract the highest point value. Overseas we won't pay a surcharged bill for points to cost over 2 cents each.
I am aware that markis10 always tries to work a bit of magic by doing low points numbers on Any Seat flights even replacing say an Economy flight up to Business or First so that he gets full SCs and points bonuses in return.
A 161,000 First Any Seat is better to him than a 116,000 then a call centre 45,000 point upgrade as you only get credit for Business Class for the Los Angeles run. From my perspective I am just grateful to get a lovely free seat in First with Business Class earning rights that we lined up to get.
Remember it is just a Game and we only have to explain to our family if we mess something up!
I just flew from Vancouver to San Francisco for an Australian Expedia price of about $100 plus a $25 bag fee in Economy....yes it is a bit of a shock on a full United A319 but tring to upgrade 4 fliers into an 8 seat First class section is not worth the effort for 2 hours in the air.
Value is a very personal thing and it is fun having the saved money getting used where it really matters.

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

Hi Guys, interesting comments. I've just booked 2 Business tickets on QF from Melb to SYD to Port Vila return for 72,000 points and $295 taxes each ( 144,000 points + $ 590) on a Classic award. I thought it was not to bad. Flight SYD to VLI is with Air Vanuatu and return. JASA flight was going to be ridiculous....something like 454,000 pooints

 

[Moopere]

Hi Guys, interesting comments. I've just booked 2 Business tickets on QF from Melb to SYD to Port Vila return for 72,000 points and $295 taxes each ( 144,000 points + $ 590) on a Classic award. I thought it was not to bad. Flight SYD to VLI is with Air Vanuatu and return. JASA flight was going to be ridiculous....something like 454,000 pooints

What was the cash price for these two J tickets?

 

[Duffa]

Qantas F/F award tickets – are they really worth it ?



Open for anyone to shoot the argument down in flames using valid counter arguments.
Cheers.

busker, the only people shooting you down in flames are QFF themselves! You are spot on with your arguments.
QFF economy rewards are a rip-off, if EVER you can find one!
It may be different for regular flyers (who earn SC's and gold/plat status etc) but for credit card earners like me you might as well send a cheque to Ed himself.
I have moved to SQ and EK.

 

[Pushka]

Hi Guys, interesting comments. I've just booked 2 Business tickets on QF from Melb to SYD to Port Vila return for 72,000 points and $295 taxes each ( 144,000 points + $ 590) on a Classic award. I thought it was not to bad. Flight SYD to VLI is with Air Vanuatu and return. JASA flight was going to be ridiculous....something like 454,000 pooints

We managed the same flights in July and we were the only ones in Business Class. It is pleasant, but nothing exceptional. They ended up forgetting us I think, maybe because we were on our own and we had to keep calling them to get drinks, they were not offered. And our luggage was one of the last cases to come out. Not good given we were first at the Immigration booth (which is verrrry slow) and it was about 1 am.

 

[futaris]

“You'll probably find that the Singapore Air fare doesn't earn Frequent Flyer points”
Fares are eligible for KrisFlyer mileage accrual.

I couldn't get this fare to come up at:
Special offers

But I did try searching (e.g. BNE-CPH 22/06/12 CPH-BNE 21/07/12) and booking on singaporeair.com, and you'll see that the fare is a Flexi Saver. Of course, this means that the fare is not upgradable using Krisflyer miles, and there is a cancellation fee.

Local Promotions - Australia

Here is the details about the $1 SSH and Early Bird deal on the singapore website. The big caveat, is that the SSH is only available on the way to Europe, not on the way back. In my experience, jetlag is always worse when flying East, but YMMV.

The 30kg baggage is a nice offer, but is really just matching Emirates.

 

[sparoz]

I find it extremely difficult even to book J classic reward seats with QF for international flights. While J domestic seems to be a lot easier. I have points galore and after reading JASA and FASA seems to be easy enough to find if you to a bit of planning. To be honest, I can't see much value in Y seats as the differential between Y and J is so great. Having said that, not many people is in my situation with that many points.

I personally found CX J is extremely easy to book as long as you book within 4 weeks of the departure date even with peak periods. Although I have just read the thread about JASA so I am not sure if I will continue to do that but it still cost more points/$ for the same seat. If I am booking J and F anyway, I am just not quite sure if there is any worth for SC while I have much better routing with CX to Europe.

 

[Favfern]

I have only been a member of this site for a relatively short time, but in that short time I have been absolutely "blown away" by the depth of knowledge of FF programs my fellow members exhibit! My next statement is made with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek --- but I really do believe that if the combined intelligence of AFF members could be diverted from the minute analysis of how to best beat the airlines at their own game, and the extraction of every last dollar of value from impossible-to-follow FF rules --- we could probably deduce the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything! I never ever did believe Douglas Adams when he said the answer was 42!