Qantas FF now enforcing change rules to FF bookings

[MEL_Traveller]

Just had an interesting discussion with the call centre regarding an upcoming booking.

It appears QF are now enforcing the change provisions set out in 14.7 - and more specifically 14.7.4 - of the QFFF terms and conditions: https://www.qantas.com/au/en/freque...ms-and-conditions.html#classic-flight-rewards

This means it is no longer possible to ADD brand new segments to an existing itinerary. You can change or amend an existing segment, but not add a new one.

So for example… a ticket with an original BKK-SYD segment:

• can be amended to make it BKK-SIN-SYD (ie the BKK-SYD segment remains intact overall)
• cannot be changed to fly BKK-SYD-BNE which exceeds the original segment.

This explains why call centre staff have been saying they cannot add segments, or need to cancel the whole booking and start again.

The QFFF terms and conditions are actually pretty clear in this prohibition, and I was surprised as in years past it was never an issue to add new segments.

This could have major implications for those without access to Auckland or Hobart as trying to add new segments/flights to a OWA could mean the call centre has to cancel and start again… with the risk of the loss of the existing seats.

Of course changes to existing segments won’t be a problem… so if your desired LHR-SYD is only available in economy, best to book that, and then work out how to get business class via DOH or tokyo later.

Edited: now potentially resolved, see post 28. While the QFFF terms and conditions don’t appear to allow the adding of segments, the ‘fare conditions’ at time of booking state you can. Thanks to ChrisMars for finding that!

 

[levelnine]

Which call centre told you this?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Which call centre told you this?

That’s a good question! It might have been Fiji.

The end result was that I couldn’t add a flight segment to an existing booking without cancelling. I was very sure it was allowed, but took the opportunity to have another look at the terms and conditions. They backed up the advice of the call centre agent.

‘segment’ is defined in the TCs and no where does it say you can amend or change a booking by adding new segments.

This never used to be an issue. I suppose QFFF australia took a very liberal view. With the overseas call centres coming on I guess they have been trained with some rigour on the rules.

I think I’m gonna be done with QFFF once I burn through my remaining points.

 

[Lynda2475]

So for a OWA you basically need to book all segments up front in any class, then as seats become available on the preferred date later, call up and change the date/class of the flights that you want to use later. Plus pay the change fee and call centre assistance fee each time.

They really need a specific set of terms for OWA as when the outbound seats are available the return seats are usually not bookable yet.

For my next OWA I will need to wait until return leg is available and hope I can still find outbound legs, thankfully needing only 1 seat makes this a bit easier.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So for a OWA you basically need to book all segments up front in any class, then as seats become available on the preferred date later, call up and change the date/class of the flights that you want to use later.

They really need a specific set of terms for OWA as when the outbound seats are available the return seats are usually not bookable yet.

That would seem to be the way we are going… at least for those without access to Auckland or Hobart call centres.

The other exception is that the rules apply to ticketed flights. So if the ticket hasn’t been issued you can add away.

But… of course… if you snagged QR seats these would be cancelled after 24 hours.

 

[exceladdict]

this is concerning.

 

[Kerrodt]

So does this apply to OWA flights ticketed through QF? If so, doesn’t this make them practically unworkable and unbookable on the basis that all segments are never all available upfront and at the time of the first segment being booked?

Perhaps someone from AFF could contact QF to clarify this, if this is indeed the case, and press QF for some logical explanation of the situation and enforcement regime around these T&C’s.

 

[levelnine]

I do wonder if it is simply a case of call centre agent error. It certainly wouldn't be the first time they've told a customer the wrong thing.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I do wonder if it is simply a case of call centre agent error. It certainly wouldn't be the first time they've told a customer the wrong thing.

Not the first time, except this is actually what the terms and conditions state.

14.7 says no changes unless you satisfy one of the exceptions listed below.

14.7.4 says:

14.7.4 Subject to this clause 14.7, the following changes are permitted to a Classic Flight Reward after ticketing and prior to commencement of any travel and will incur a Change Fee (see the Fee Schedule) per passenger:​

(a) change to flight number;
(b) change to date of travel;
(c) change to class of travel;
(d) change to any Segment routing or airline;
(e) change to name (only for Flights with a Qantas (QF) flight number on the ticket that are operated by Qantas); and
(f) request to cancel ticket and re-credit Qantas Points. Please note that only Qantas Points that would not have expired will be re-credited.​

14.7.4(d) says you can change a segment. Segment is defined as:

‘Segment' means the portion of a journey between two consecutive points listed on an Itinerary. Segments may either be Flight Segments or Surface Segments;​

So you cannot change unless it’s already on the ticket, ie you cannot change the ticket to add a brand new set of segments to a city that wasn’t originally there.

We have commented previously in this and the OWA thread that agents must be in error when they’ve said they can’t add new flights in. But it seems according to the TCs they’re literally following the rules now.

So does this apply to OWA flights ticketed through QF? If so, doesn’t this make them practically unworkable and unbookable on the basis that all segments are never all available upfront and at the time of the first segment being booked?

Perhaps someone from AFF could contact QF to clarify this, if this is indeed the case, and press QF for some logical explanation of the situation and enforcement regime around these T&C’s.

I checked the TCs, there no exception for OWAs that I can see. I’m not sure how many people this will affect though? I have only ever booked my itineraries in one go, max around 6 months out.

 

[Cognac]

The T&Cs make no mention at all of adding segments to ticketed trips. Only changes to existing segments, and that includes for things you aren't allowed to do in the lead-up to departure, or after travel has commenced. I would be very surprised if they considered this to be a categorical ban on adding segments to reward itineraries.

 

[ellen10]

Oh dear, this does not sound like good news.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The T&Cs make no mention at all of adding segments to ticketed trips. Only changes to existing segments, and that includes for things you aren't allowed to do in the lead-up to departure, or after travel has commenced. I would be very surprised if they considered this to be a categorical ban on adding segments to reward itineraries.

My reading is that it does cover adding sectors. Under the heading of ‘changes to tickets’:

14.7.1 Except as otherwise stated in this clause 14.7 and clause 14.8, changes are not permitted to any Classic Flight Reward at any time. Any permitted changes are subject to Classic Flight Reward availability.​

The term ‘class is reward’ is a defined one:

'Classic Flight Reward' means a ticket and reservation for one or more Flights with a Qantas (QF) or a oneworld Member Airline or an Airline Partner (including Jetstar Airlines) flight number, and described by Qantas as a 'Classic Flight Reward', which a Member obtains through Qantas Frequent Flyer by redeeming Qantas Points, in accordance with these Terms and Conditions;​

​

If you want to make changes to a classic flight reward - which is defined as the ticket as a whole - you must fall within one of the exceptions I mentioned above. Adding a whole new flight or segment isn’t one of them.

Note you can change an existing segment, so you could put a holding LAX-SYD in, and after change that t go via Tokyo or Hing Kong, because the overall LAX-SYD segment is already in the ticket.

I agree that’s never been the standard practice. However with an off-shore call centre, they’ve probably been told they need to follow the rules as written.

 

[AFF Editor]

Perhaps someone from AFF could contact QF to clarify this, if this is indeed the case, and press QF for some logical explanation of the situation and enforcement regime around these T&C’s.

I have asked Qantas for clarification.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I have asked Qantas for clarification.

Thanks! And if call centres are incorrectly interpreting, the next question should be how QF can rectify that!

 

[Cognac]

My reading is that it does cover adding sectors. Under the heading of ‘changes to tickets’:

14.7.1 Except as otherwise stated in this clause 14.7 and clause 14.8, changes are not permitted to any Classic Flight Reward at any time. Any permitted changes are subject to Classic Flight Reward availability.​

The term ‘class is reward’ is a defined one:

'Classic Flight Reward' means a ticket and reservation for one or more Flights with a Qantas (QF) or a oneworld Member Airline or an Airline Partner (including Jetstar Airlines) flight number, and described by Qantas as a 'Classic Flight Reward', which a Member obtains through Qantas Frequent Flyer by redeeming Qantas Points, in accordance with these Terms and Conditions;​

​

If you want to make changes to a classic flight reward - which is defined as the ticket as a whole - you must fall within one of the exceptions I mentioned above. Adding a whole new flight or segment isn’t one of them.

Note you can change an existing segment, so you could put a holding LAX-SYD in, and after change that t go via Tokyo or Hing Kong, because the overall LAX-SYD segment is already in the ticket.

I agree that’s never been the standard practice. However with an off-shore call centre, they’ve probably been told they need to follow the rules as written.

Hmmm. I wonder if you could argue that for OWA tickets, because they are always assumed and calculated as return trips (distance to port of origin is always included even if that's not where you finish) that it is assume this last Segment is what you are changing...?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Hmmm. I wonder if you could argue that for OWA tickets, because they are always assumed and calculated as return trips (distance to port of origin is always included even if that's not where you finish) that it is assume this last Segment is what you are changing...?

I thought about that too… but the last segment is not actually ticketed. The mileage is just included.

You can in theory add segments, but it requires a cancellation of the entire itinerary and rebooking. Which is consistent with recent reports here on AFF where members have stated the call centre wants to rebook everything from scratch.

The major risk is that the seats cancelled would never come back into the award pool.

there’s probably a way for an experience agent to cancel the ticket and keep the sectors… but this is probably more likely for Auckland or Hobart, not the others.

 

[Cognac]

True. I wonder if previously it hasn't been "enforced" simply because the CC were able to rebook without losing the sectors on the new booking. Maybe there was an IT change at Qantas which has made that harder to sneak through?

 

[andye]

I thought about that too… but the last segment is not actually ticketed. The mileage is just included.

You can in theory add segments, but it requires a cancellation of the entire itinerary and rebooking. Which is consistent with recent reports here on AFF where members have stated the call centre wants to rebook everything from scratch.

The major risk is that the seats cancelled would never come back into the award pool.

there’s probably a way for an experience agent to cancel the ticket and keep the sectors… but this is probably more likely for Auckland or Hobart, not the others.

Looks like time for QF to have a separate OWA line option though doubt it will happen (not least as its open to abuse). Given OWA is a big sweet spot it's a significant devaluation

 

[Kangol]

If this is the case, then 14.7.4 (d) "change to any Segment routing" reminds me of what was done with AAwards to get around it.

 

[ozflier]

This rule if applied to OWAs, makes the award unworkable in many cases!