Qantas FF Unfairness

[digga123]

Sorry I have to cough on my first post but I feel ripped.

Like most of you, we have saved our FF points up to use on a nice holiday away. The destination we chose is Hawaii.

I started looking for available award flights today and found a flight that departs Sydney on the 14th August and returns 28th August. Unfortunately it is a Jetstar flight both ways. So that means we will miss out on meals etc. What caught my surprise was the surcharges and fees for the return flight. $355.14.

I decided then to check the Jetstar website and see what taxes they charge for the return cash ticket. $145.

Wow! So firstly I get thrown on an airline that I don't like (miss out on meals, blankets, in-flight entertainment), and then to really rub salt into the wound Qantas charge me an extra $200 in fees/per adult.

How is this fair???

 

[one9]

If this is true, it sounds like Qantas are possibly guilty of misleading advertising if they advertise that you simply pay the taxes + surcharges when booking award flights.

if you could be bothered, complaining to the ACCC and Fair Trading may have a very small chance of getting Qantas to play a little fairer.

 

[stuartfaz]

Sorry I have to cough on my first post but I feel ripped.

Like most of you, we have saved our FF points up to use on a nice holiday away. The destination we chose is Hawaii.

I started looking for available award flights today and found a flight that departs Sydney on the 14th August and returns 28th August. Unfortunately it is a Jetstar flight both ways. So that means we will miss out on meals etc. What caught my surprise was the surcharges and fees for the return flight. $355.14.

I decided then to check the Jetstar website and see what taxes they charge for the return cash ticket. $145.

Wow! So firstly I get thrown on an airline that I don't like (miss out on meals, blankets, in-flight entertainment), and then to really rub salt into the wound Qantas charge me an extra $200 in fees/per adult.

How is this fair???

Welcome to AFF.

Something similar to this has been discussed here http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...urcharge-different-jetstar-flights-13703.html and this response should be of interest to you.

Simple explanation (as dubious as the approach is) is that Qantas and Jetstar are different airlines and charge different surcharges. You will find that rife throughout the airline industry, particularly when codeshares come it play, the surcharge will depend on the airline marketing the flight. QF is essentially codesharing on the JQ flight, so are entitled to charge what they want.

Indeed QF itself charge different surcharges depending on where you originate, so someone travelling SYD-LHR-SYD will pay different surcharges to someone travelling on the same flight numbers from LHR-SYD-LHR (usually those travelling ex-AUS pay more, as we love QF that much more than travellers in other countries).

The most extreme case of what you are referring to is when JQ have sales on, I have seen flights available on JQ for $5 in total (no surcharges). On those same flights and the same day you could if you were a raving lunatic, or where gullible and didn't know any better spend 8,000 pts + approx $40 in surcharges.

So, because Qantas and Jetstar are different airlines, they can charge whatever taxes and surcharges they like on services they sell. As you're on a Qantas-coded flight, you're charged Qantas surcharges, regardless of the fact Jetstar are operating it.

If it's any consolation, JQi (in my limited experience with them) aren't that bad.

And as you are booked on a QF-coded flight, you should (I'm not sure whether FF bookings are included anymore) be entitled to complimentary meals and unlimited non alcoholic beverages, a blanket and a headset in economy.

 

[serfty]

...And as you are booked on a QF-coded flight, you should (I'm not sure whether FF bookings are included anymore) be entitled to complimentary meals and unlimited non alcoholic beverages, a blanket and a headset in economy.

Non StarClass FF redemption on JQi gives the seat - nothing else!

 

[stuartfaz]

Non StarClass FF redemption on JQi gives the seat - nothing else!

Ahh ok then...I was going off a brochure JQ gave me about their economy service when i checked in last. It said:

Excludes some Qantas frequent flyer redemption bookings

I guess by some they might have meant all.

 

[digga123]

From the research I have done, and the conversation I have had with Qantas employees, I have now made up my mind that it is better to use my points towards a destination that Jetstar does not fly to.

I can list the reasons if anyone is bothered to read them.

 

[importantflyer]

Yeah sometimes it can be just cheaper to buy a flight and save your reward points. I always check the prices before I consider using my points..

It's annoying you didnt get a good positive feeling from using your points for the first time.

 

[Therma]

QF is not the only one who rips off on additional charges. I redeemed points for my wife and 2.5 year old daughter to Ukraine with SQ. The additional charges were almost 1200 AUD ex SIN!

 

[Alanslegal]

From the research I have done, and the conversation I have had with Qantas employees, I have now made up my mind that it is better to use my points towards a destination that Jetstar does not fly to.

And you are likely to get better redemption value if avoiding JQ flights anyway!

 

[digga123]

Since my first post I have used FF points to travel to Fiji and Cairns. I believe I have got better value from using the points for the flights compared with what I would've got by redeeming them for shopping vouchers.

I think the biggest thing for me was avoiding Jetstar flights.

Troy Degarnham

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Since my first post I have used FF points to travel to Fiji and Cairns. I believe I have got better value from using the points for the flights compared with what I would've got by redeeming them for shopping vouchers.

I think the biggest thing for me was avoiding Jetstar flights.

Troy Degarnham

Yes there are redemptions..and redemptions...and they are definately not equal!!!!


I tend to maximise mine by flying on the 'quality airlines"...not Jetstar...and to get redemptions at peak times of year when the paid flight would have been at a high cost (ie school holiday periods as I have three kids).

If I have a desitnation in mind I will check what a fully paid deal will cost at the intended time of year.

For example sometimes a flight/hotel package deal will be quite cheap....and the redemption plus taxes plus hotels will have been at either about a similar cost or at not much of a discount (plus also factoring in earnt FF points on the paid booking). In such case I will buy rather than redeem.

So in summation , yes there is very much an art & science to maximising FF redemption value.....

The tricks are doing things to maximise your earn at minimal cost...and then redeeming in ways that maximise the value per point. These both vary depending on your particular circumastances. So you need to work out what is best for you. There is no one best path for everyone.

FF points are not at all like cash....but rather have a highly variable value depending on the knowledge and skill of the redeemer.

There is a bias in that if you can book a long way out you can secure flights with maximum value. Unfortunately when you cannot book well out, opportunities to book in peak periods tend to vanish.

 

[digga123]

So in summation , yes there is very much an art & science to maximising FF redemption value.....

You are right about that. These FF programs don't make it easy.

Troy Degarnham

 

[lovetravellingoz]

You are right about that. These FF programs don't make it easy.

Troy Degarnham

Well the upside of that is that if you take the time to learn how to best use the 'system" that you will gain better value than most.

 

[docjames]

Yep, no two redemtions are equal.

eg. Classic award:

Return BNE-MEL 24000pts + tax (about $30 last time i looked)
Current red-edeal: $129 each way --> $258

vs

(one i actually took)

(oneway) CUN-DFW-SCL 30000pts + tax ($40)
Available airfare $2588

Needless to say, one is much better value than the other for about the same points spend.

 

[jingles]

Last time i went to NZ i booked the tickets with points as i thought the flight was longer than it actually is.

A few weeks later i was checking the qantas website and noticed that actually paying for the tickets was cheaper than the fees i was charged when booking with points (not to mention the 'cost' of the actual points)

I ended up canceling the points tickets, obtaining a refund for the fees i had paid and simply paying for the ticket.

 

[straitman]

I ended up canceling the points tickets, obtaining a refund for the fees i had paid and simply paying for the ticket.

It's always a good move to compare the numbers before hand. As this example shows there are some real rip offs available in the FF schemes if you choose to go that way.

 

[vt]

Yep....redemtpions are not equal.

Last redemption on QF.
2 x J tickets MEL to HKG on QF via SYD was 265k FF points and $600 in fines on QF.

Just redeemed
2 x J tickets MEL to HKT via HKG was 140k FF miles and $300 in fines on AA.

Even factoring how I got the AA points (AMEX to SPG to AA), I'm still ahead of the pack.

 

[moa999]

Yep....redemtpions are not equal.

Last redemption on QF.
2 x J tickets MEL to HKG on QF via SYD was 265k FF points and $600 in fines on QF.

Just redeemed
2 x J tickets MEL to HKT via HKG was 140k FF miles and $300 in fines on AA.

Even factoring how I got the AA points (AMEX to SPG to AA), I'm still ahead of the pack.

But 1 Amex Mile = 1 QF Mile
1 Amex Mile = 0.33 SPG pts = 0.4125 AA miles (inc the 5k for 20k bonus)
so the 140k AA FF points in your example above is equivalent to 339k QF FF points

(given the special 1 Amex = 0.6 SPG has now gone)

 

[vt]

Yep, I did take advantage of the 1000 to 600 ratio.

Adding to the complexity:
1. I didnt need all my miles from AMEX.
2. The QF redemption was to HKG and the AA redemption was to HKT.
3. QF Business (on Deathstar) to HKT would be 288k.
4. As WP, I requested U availability on the dates as there were only 1 U seat even 9 months out to HKG.
5. AMEX to QF flexibility ends 1st April 2009.
6. After a year of not flying QF, I now have successfully reduced my QF balance to 80k and drop back to Gold.