Qantas Pricing / Flight Consolidations / Impacts to Customers

[BD1959]

Here's something that invariably gets put down to "just a result of an operational issue" but - as usual - there are consequences borne by the passenger.

I needed to make a last minute (7 days out) booking to be in Sydney from Melbourne this last weekend. I also had a constraint to be back in Melbourne by 4pm Saturday. Consequently, I bit the bullet and booked the 13:00 flight at a vastly inflated price of $500+ over those half the price with a departure later in the afternoon. In fact the 11:00, 12:00 and 13:00 flights were all priced at the premium amount.

On Friday QF made the call to cancel the 13:00 flight - I'm guessing to consolidate costs - and I considered myself fortunate to be able to contact QF straight away and get a seat on the 12:00, although I was initially allocated to the 14:00.

Of course, the 12:00 had a technical issue which was initially promised to be fixed in 40mins but which was subsequently cancelled. There was very little availability on the next 3 flights and I was "accommodated" on the 16:00. I missed the appointment back in Melbourne.

Now I understand that Tech Issues - and cancellations - are part of the fabric of transportation however I feel that in this instance, QF had painted themselves into a corner from a mitigation perspective by proactively cancelling the 13:00 as early as Friday. Should I feel slightly cheated that I went out of my to pay a considerable premium to mitigate my own risks of meeting my deadline but in the end could have missed that and travelled at a cost half of that which I'd paid?

I should add that prior to booking I called to see if QF would release a seat to save me from having to pay such an extortionate fee however the HBA-based resource tried every possible flight on the Sunday and could only offer 5pm - which again, busted my need to be back by 4pm.

Would be interested in other's thoughts.

Regards,

BD

 

[TheInsider]

Here's something that invariably gets put down to "just a result of an operational issue" but - as usual - there are consequences borne by the passenger.

I needed to make a last minute (7 days out) booking to be in Sydney from Melbourne this last weekend. I also had a constraint to be back in Melbourne by 4pm Saturday. Consequently, I bit the bullet and booked the 13:00 flight at a vastly inflated price of $500+ over those half the price with a departure later in the afternoon. In fact the 11:00, 12:00 and 13:00 flights were all priced at the premium amount.

On Friday QF made the call to cancel the 13:00 flight - I'm guessing to consolidate costs - and I considered myself fortunate to be able to contact QF straight away and get a seat on the 12:00, although I was initially allocated to the 14:00.

Of course, the 12:00 had a technical issue which was initially promised to be fixed in 40mins but which was subsequently cancelled. There was very little availability on the next 3 flights and I was "accommodated" on the 16:00. I missed the appointment back in Melbourne.

Now I understand that Tech Issues - and cancellations - are part of the fabric of transportation however I feel that in this instance, QF had painted themselves into a corner from a mitigation perspective by proactively cancelling the 13:00 as early as Friday. Should I feel slightly cheated that I went out of my to pay a considerable premium to mitigate my own risks of meeting my deadline but in the end could have missed that and travelled at a cost half of that which I'd paid?

Would be interested in other's thoughts.

Anything cancelled at a shorter notice say within 72hrs to the departure time is generally ATC staffing issues currently, along with engineering issues (at this time)
The airlines don't want to cancel flights, especially if they are full. It's a logistical nightmare cancelling flights at short notice. The downline issues are massive when cancelling flights at short notice.
So I don't see that QF are painting themselves into a corner.

TBH it's a cough situation for the customer, but I guarantee you, no staff member wants to be dealing with it, and cancellations can come at a big financial cost too (for on the day ops).

 

[BD1959]

Anything cancelled at a shorter notice say within 72hrs to the departure time is generally ATC staffing issues currently, along with engineering issues (at this time)
The airlines don't want to cancel flights, especially if they are full. It's a logistical nightmare cancelling flights at short notice. The downline issues are massive when cancelling flights at short notice.
So I don't see that QF are painting themselves into a corner.

Wouldn't ATC staffing issues result in a raft of pre-planned cancellations? This was certainly not evident given the 5hrs spent in the lounge yesterday ... lots of short notice cancellations however.

The service desk staff did comment that it had been a particularly bad week for IROPS without mentioning ATC.

Regards,

BD

 

[TheInsider]

Wouldn't ATC staffing issues result in a raft of pre-planned cancellations? This was certainly not evident given the 5hrs spent in the lounge yesterday ... lots of short notice cancellations however.

The service desk staff did comment that it had been a particularly bad week for IROPS without mentioning ATC.

Regards,

BD

Can be pre planned and also can be done on the day and also at departure time. Service desk staff don't necessarily see the reasons as to the cancellations, they just see the cancellation and deal with it.

Over the past week, majority of the cancellations are due to 1 or 2 aircraft being out of service and due to SYD and MEL slot times.

 

[docjames]

A bit of discussion on this topic already in the Qantas delays and cancellations thread.

Wonder how many VA cancellations there were on the same day (due to ATC or otherwise)?

Agree it’s a lousy situation - you’ve illustrated the impact of flight consolidation beautifully.

 

[AIRwin]

Wonder how many VA cancellations there were on the same day (due to ATC or otherwise)?

Flight status on 18 March 2023:

 

[docjames]

Flight status on 18 March 2023:
View attachment 319776

Exactly.

 

[BD1959]

Exactly.

My impacted flights were on the 19th ...

Regards,

BD

 

[AIRwin]

My impacted flights were on the 19th ...

Apologies you did mention that "I also had a constraint to be back in Melbourne by 4pm Saturday".

I also had a constraint to be back in Melbourne by 4pm Saturday.

Flight status on 19 March 2023:

 

[TheInsider]

Exactly.

And yet look at today:



It's a matter of slot constraints and aircraft broken, for both airlines.

 

[muppet]

Sure, airlines don’t want to cancel flights.

But the point is, if schedule and flight times don’t form part of our contract with airlines - why is the price we pay so often dictated by the flight time?

It flight times don’t form part of the contract, then have a bunch of prices that reflect the various flexibility requirements or classes and those are fully available for every flight. Then Qantas can say with a straight face the schedule isn’t part of the contract and OP can’t complain because they paid the same as they would have on later flight.

The OP has a point, it’s annoying to pay $500 to be on the 1pm flight and end up on the $200 4pm flight. In any other retailing business the OP would have a consumer law remedy.

 

[Captain Halliday]

I was booked on the 0520hrs BNE-SYD this morning.

Before I went to bed last night EF was showing almost all the B and E seats blocked and very few seats selected in the back six rows (approx)

With the alarm set for 0330hrs, I was woken by a a text at 2135 last night advising the cancellation.

PITA and no refund for the lost sleep.

 

[RooFlyer]

And yet look at today:

Yes, but what was happening on the day under discussion, where Qantas had cancellations - ?due ATC? - but Virgin had none? Just unlucky?

 

[TheInsider]

Yes, but what was happening on the day under discussion, where Qantas had cancellations - ?due ATC? - but Virgin had none? Just unlucky?

Like I said, ATC and broken aircraft. You think I just make this up or something?

 

[BD1959]

Like I said, ATC and broken aircraft. You think I just make this up or something?

With your inside knowledge - why wouldn't the aircraft from the ATC cancelled 13:00 service be available for the broken 12:00 service?

Regards,

BD

 

[serfty]

While there may be ATC issues, i have found for decades that Qantas often cancel consolidate Saturday flights on the golden triangle and Adelaide.

I have learned to try book earlier flights up front - if flight not cancelled, I get to use arrivals lounge access for a bit.

 

[TheInsider]

With your inside knowledge - why wouldn't the aircraft from the ATC cancelled 13:00 service be available for the broken 12:00 service?

Regards,

BD

Once the slot is gone, it's gone or if it's simply not available it can't be taken.
All airlines can swap and or take over other slots if they are available.
Lets say VA is delayed by 20 minutes, they will lose their slot time. Now if QF was meant to depart after them and QF is then ready to depart early, QF can take their slot time, and then VA could then possibly use the QF one, that's only if JQ or Rex haven't taken it already.

If the aircraft don't have a COBT (Calculated Off Blocks Time) when the program is running, then the aircraft can go 'non compliant' but then risks huge holding times (also not even getting a landing spot) in the air and in a operating sense, would require more fuel uplift and then more of a delay on the ground anyway.

 

[RooFlyer]

Like I said, ATC and broken aircraft. You think I just make this up or something?

Gee, I just asked why Qantas and Virgin had such different outcomes if the issue was "?due ATC?" - "unlucky?". Add broken aircraft.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

To BD1959… this is where I love Rex! Even on day of departure it’s usually possible to pick up MEL-SYD for $349 (business)… walk up and go!

 

[justinbrett]

A bit of discussion on this topic already in the Qantas delays and cancellations thread.

Wonder how many VA cancellations there were on the same day (due to ATC or otherwise)?

Agree it’s a lousy situation - you’ve illustrated the impact of flight consolidation beautifully.

And I already answered your question / statement about VA cancellations in that other thread.

For the benefit of others, it’s because VA still hold all their VA1 slots due to the slot waiver still in place, so they have far more slots than they need. ‘Anti-competitive’ slot waivers extended for 6 months

And yet today, Virgin has more slots in Sydney Airport than before, but half the number of aircraft. Virgin is sitting on slots and holding them, knowing that they will not use them, but they’ll keep holding onto them until the government changes the way things work.

ATC induced cancellations are based on slots held, not how many services at scheduled.