Qantas - Sould I bother ?

[ITGUY911]

Guys, my first post so please bare with me, long time reader first time Poster.
I travel a fair bit for work, but not as much as many of you, perhaps 15 domestic trips a year and 5-6 international. Domestically travel is full price economy, I need the flexibility of chnageable ticketsetc, International is always full price business. Up until about 18 months ago, I travelled pretty much exclusively Qantas, but there arrogant attitude cheesed me off enough to go to the other side (VB). But i still flew Internationaly whenever possible with Qantas, up until a recent experience related to securing flights to and from Singapore. In short I was in the situation of having a confirmed flight from Brisbane to SIN but being waitlisted for four consecutive days for the flight home. This was 3 days prior to departure and the trip duration was expected to be 4 days.
As a current Gold level frequent flyer and a strong advocate of flying “Australian” I was a little surprised by two things.

1 -) That on calling the “booking center” I was informed that there were eight seats available in Business class (I fly business class exclusively when traveling O/S) but they could not be released at that time, unless I was willing to pay for an additional cost of approx $1100.00. This is three days prior to departure.
2 -) The attitude of the call center girl who I can best categorize as arrogant who more or less told me that if I did not like it, I was welcome to choose another airline.

To Cut a long story short, in the heat of the moment I did in fact do exactly that. I flew with Singapore Airlines, cost $900.00 less (Business class) than my original fare and was thoroughly impressed by the level of cabin customer service, the superior quality of the lounge and the helpfulness of the reservation and ground staff. I flew on my preferred dates without being waitlisted. This is one great airline.


I am in the process of booking a trip (again into SIN) for the end of this month. I am taking a colleague with me. The agent who makes our bookings asked me for a preferred airline. Is there a reason anyone can give me to keep my business with Qantas. I am under no illusions as to the value of my business. I know there are much bigger customers out there, but all the same I would have thought that a loyal traveler who does travel reasonably frequently would have been worth hanging onto.
Besides my sense of patriotism and loyalty (misplaced it would seem), a further reason to stay with Qantas was that Between now and October I have planned, 3 further trips into Singapore, and one to the US & the possibility of a further trip to Sth Korea. I was looking forward to attaining Platinum status (FF) but sadly this does seem to be unlikely as I will not be able to fit enough trips in between now and then and my cut off date. ( I don’t know why I was looking forward to this but I was.) Had my last trip been with Qantas I would have made it.
I know this is longer than it should be, so in short, what does qantas in fact offer that is worth the premium. If you ask me, they are becoming like a 2nd rate airline, too many arrogant staff, second rate lounges, below standard meals and a take it or leave it attitude. I fell my loyalty has been severely taken for granted.
Does any one have a similar experience or am I just over reacting?

 

[Dave Noble]

I think that your expectations from the call centre were unreasonable. If there was no availability in the booking class that you were booked in, then you cannot change to that flight. It sounds like you are flying in a discounted business class (e.g. D class ) rather than full J . If J is available and D isnt, well that's just life. You would have had the same situation with Singapore airlines if they didn't have appropriate availability

Whether you choose another carrier is your choice; if travelling business class anyway, then why not just pick the carrier that best meets your travel needs for that flight at the best price?

Dave

 

[ITGUY911]

Actually the explanation I was give for the 8 Vacant seats was that they were being reserved for a Singapore travel company who was an agent for an Amway conference and they were on hold (just in case) for them. My ticket was in fact a full class J ticket as this is what I always organise.
I will agree i guess whith te best price best option part of your reply however, I guess the clever part of the frequent flyer marketing program is, that it really does foster loyalty. I guess the downside is that as a loyal customer you actually expect something in return, and become dissapointed when you don't even get the courtesy of a "thanks" for your loyalty

 

[Dave Noble]

Actually the explanation I was give for the 8 Vacant seats was that they were being reserved for a Singapore travel company who was an agent for an Amway conference and they were on hold (just in case) for them. My ticket was in fact a full class J ticket as this is what I always organise.
I will agree i guess whith te best price best option part of your reply however, I guess the clever part of the frequent flyer marketing program is, that it really does foster loyalty. I guess the downside is that as a loyal customer you actually expect something in return, and become dissapointed when you don't even get the courtesy of a "thanks" for your loyalty

If the seats were on hold, then that is as good as booked; until the seats are released, then they are unavailable to be sold to someone else. If you reserved a booking , you would expect it to be still there when you came to confirm it and not to have been deleted early , wouldnt you?

If you can save a few hundred $ on trips, that is better value than some FF miles isnt it? Or , of course, open accounts in different programmes and spread around based on the best flight you can find for your plans

Dave

 

[ITGUY911]

I could accept that a reserved set being reserved for some-one being valid, And would accepted that as fair, except when it can be "unreserved" and given to me for $1100.00. Thats kinda like extortion.

 

[kpc]

From a cabin service point of view, there is no comparison between business class in SQ vs QF:
SQ wins:
1) More attentive cabin crew who are keen to serve and please the customer
2) Crew who don't "disappear" midflight, and don't appear slightly annoyed when you press the call button
2) Better food, with "book the cook" option
3) Better inflight entertainmnent with AVOD available vs maybe AVOD available

QF wins:
1) slightly better bed for sleeping
2) provide an amenity bag

I had the choice of becoming QF plat vs QF gold and SQ PPS (and you go to the top of the waitlist if PPS on SQ), and have chosen the latter!

My current preferences are:
1) SQ over QF in J, if both flights are available (NB pricewise they are similar, and sometimes SQ is cheaper - not an issue for me as company pays anyway)
2) Toss up between SQ and QF in J if QF is a direct flight and SQ is an indirect flight eg. I chose to fly Syd-Hkg with QF rather than Syd-Sin-Hkg with SQ as my time was limited.
3) Obviously, I have to fly QF domestically (would probably consider DJ but I'm am QF Club member life)
4) Was very disappointed when SQ did not get the rights to fly Syd-Lax!

In case you missed it, I prefer SQ to QF, not that QF is bad, but they need more competition or some other incentive, to improve their inflight service levels.

 

[ITGUY911]

yes, I agree with you cabin comparison 100%. a telling indicator is when they come to your seat to take an order for dinner for eg. the qantas guys have a list, and adress you, "Mr <look down, check list> (insert name her)" where as on Singapore they just remember. A nice touch.
Would be nice if they did the amenity kit though but you can help yourself to a toothbrush kit etc in the bathroom

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

One good benefit of SQ PPS status I find is the ability to clear waitlists on SQ like magic. Since I don't travel full fare I often have to waitlist for my flights. But with one exception (on dozens of times waitlisted) it has always cleared. The one time it didnt clear they were oversold by 20 in business and I was trying to come back on an earlier flight than the one I booked. In the end only 19 no shows and first was full. I was offered an economy seat (bumping someone else off the flight) but declined.

 

[Yada Yada]

Is there a reason anyone can give me to keep my business with Qantas. I am under no illusions as to the value of my business. I know there are much bigger customers out there, but all the same I would have thought that a loyal traveler who does travel reasonably frequently would have been worth hanging onto.

I know this is longer than it should be, so in short, what does qantas in fact offer that is worth the premium. If you ask me, they are becoming like a 2nd rate airline, too many arrogant staff, second rate lounges, below standard meals and a take it or leave it attitude. I fell my loyalty has been severely taken for granted. Does any one have a similar experience or am I just over reacting?

Welcome to AFF, ITGUY911.

I'm a Gold level Qantas FF and same as you, often find their service levels to be disappointing. To be fair, I've had some very good experiences with QF, but service is patchy. It seems that there are enough staff members with an attitude problem that it results in an ordinary or sometimes negative experience for passengers.

The constant cost cutting would not help, although I also feel that there is an historical basis to the service levels at QF. When I first began flying regularly for business just over 20 years ago I always found Ansett had far better service. AN staffers had a great attitude and the customer-focused culture made flying fun. QF (TAA/Australian back then) was a government-owned company, employing public servants, and the service seemed a lot like what you get at the local RTA office - a take it or leave it /"I'm doing you a favour" type of attitude. I think this culture still exists. It's difficult to change a company's culture.

I agree that SQ puts QF in the shade. Many of us have had to put up with QF's patchy service because there was no business alternative after the demise of AN - i.e. no-one else with lounges, a FF program, etc. Thankfully, the growth of Virgin Blue into a fully-fledged carrier is changing that. DJ have always had better customer service, and with the addition of lounges in BNE, SYD, MEL and ADL, the introduction of a FF program and fares/options targetted at business people, we are finally getting competition.

 

[kpc]

...often find their service levels to be disappointing...service is patchy. It seems that there are enough staff members with an attitude problem that it results in an ordinary or sometimes negative experience for passengers...
...a take it or leave it /"I'm doing you a favour" type of attitude. I think this culture still exists. It's difficult to change a company's culture...
...Many of us have had to put up with QF's patchy service because there was no business alternative after the demise of AN

I agree 100% with these comments about QF, unfortunately

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

Besides my sense of patriotism and loyalty (misplaced it would seem)

Qantas is a business like any other and loyalty for loyalty's sake has no place in business.

The continual downgrading of it's service as it, amongst other things, transfers services to Jetstar shows a lack of loyalty by Qantas towards its customers.

I have experienced many similar frustrations with Qantas which make me start to appreciate other international carriers operating into Australia and that perhaps I should be making more of all that competition. Long live the free market!

 

[superchris]

As a Solitaire PPS Club member who travels F frequently, the SIN F lounge (right turn at top of escaltor) is well worth the experience

 

[Yada Yada]

As a Solitaire PPS Club member who travels F frequently, the SIN F lounge (right turn at top of escaltor) is well worth the experience

Quite a few of us on the forum here have been in that lounge a few times. It's a real treat. The shower facilities are fantastic.

 

[dajop]

As a Solitaire PPS Club member who travels F frequently, the SIN F lounge (right turn at top of escaltor) is well worth the experience

Nothing against SQ (I generally do enjoy flying them), but after recently achieving PPS club status I was able to turn right at the top of the escalator instead of left, and must say I was disappointed. But my point of reference is the first class section of the CX lounges in HKG ( The Wing/ The Pier ) which are just superb. So I guess compared to most other lounges the SIN F lounge isn't that bad. It will be interesting to see what QF come up with in their FCL upgrades at MEL and SYD international airports.

 

[aus_flyer]

Something doesn't make sense - if you were booking full J, then it's not possible to get a seat for an extra $1100. Any chance they were quoting D, but you thought J?

J is the top, top, top business.

 

[browski]

I could accept that a reserved set being reserved for some-one being valid, And would accepted that as fair, except when it can be "unreserved" and given to me for $1100.00. Thats kinda like extortion.

It is fair to say that with regards to Customer Service, Qantas is complete rubbish. Other than the Qantas apologists, (and there are a few of them on this board) most of us have our own negative anecdotal Qantas experience.

It is fair to say that with regards to servicing departure cities other than Syd and destination cities such as Singapore, Qantas is complete rubbish - see posts: http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/open-discussion/why-there-no-qf-7326.html

and

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/qantas-frequent-flyer/everything-is-sydney-sydney-sydney-7314.html?highlight=sydney

and

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/your-questions/one-world-to-bahrain-7653.html

If you have 3 more flights to SIN plus another to LAX and Korea, then fly Singapore and enjoy the ride. At least 3 (spaced out) flights daily to SIN from BNE, SYD MEL. That's service.

When you can't fly SQ, fly Emirates and credit those points to your Velocity account.

See, you were not insane or unreasonable after all.

 

[oz_mark]

It is fair to say that with regards to Customer Service, Qantas is complete rubbish. Other than the Qantas apologists, (and there are a few of them on this board) most of us have our own negative anecdotal Qantas experience.

Qantas apologists? On this board??? Surely you jest!

 

[JohnK]

Qantas apologists? On this board??? Surely you jest!

Are they the ones that hardly ever have issues with QF and when they do QF customer service resolves the issue favourably in an efficient and timely manner?

 

[Aircrash 1]

Or perhaps they are among the shrinking number of travel agents, and depend on Qantas for the majority of their income?????

 

[sadlier]

I agree with the others in that the choice between SQ and the 'the rat' is really no choice.
However you might like to give some thought to the frequent flyer program options.
Travelling in J you will tot up PPS credits whatever you do with the miles. But if the USA is a regular destination and you do that with UA then once you hit 50,000 miles a year you start getting double miles on UA as well as the J class bonusses.