Qantas to Norfolk Island

[justinbrett]

Given the bubble popped last night, I wonder how long it is until Qantas has to come in again and rescue the Norfolk Island flights again.

Flights for the next 3-4 days have already been canceled and it remains to be seen if any last-minute QF services are introduced.

This one could go much longer. UK strain with no known links.

Qantas should probably swoop in and see if they can take over the contract.

Alternatively ANZ could just subcontract Alliance or even Qantas to operate it for them.

 

[Josh]

I'm interested to know - if these are domestic flights, then why do the depart BNE and SYD int terminals (NZ), which is what I assume QF are doing as well (given their flight numbers are <400)

 

[henrus]

I'm interested to know - if these are domestic flights, then why do the depart BNE and SYD int terminals (NZ), which is what I assume QF are doing as well (given their flight numbers are <400)

Good question and I guess it could have with NZ insisting on being able to continue to use the international terminal. Pre covid this wasn't an issue and they could have short (sometimes 45 minutes) turn arounds on the A320's in SYD/MEL on flights to/from NZ/Norfolk. It used to be outside of the migration zone prior to 2016 hence the reason before 2016 but for the last 5 years there has been no real good reason and whilst I'm sure some may talk about biosecurity, checks could continue to be done on Norfolk Island on arrival and before departure (just like Hawaii to the mainland US).

I'm secretly hoping Air NZ loses the contract and then perhaps either Qantas or Virgin gets the route at which point why not bring flights to/from the domestic terminal like they should be. Just twice in 2 weeks, Air NZ has been unable to fulfill its contract and so it should be terminated immediately.

 

[henrus]

Literally, as I posted my last rant post I've noticed the following. Qantas will once again fly to Norfolk Island starting tomorrow.



The following flights are now on sale via the Qantas website:

16 Feb - QF183 - BNE-NLK - $421 (sale), $451 (saver) and $601 (flex)
16 Feb - QF184 - NLK-BNE - $396 (sale), $426 (saver) and $576 (flex)

17 Feb - QF179 - SYD-NLK - $420 (sale), $450 (saver) and $600 (flex)
17 Feb - QF180 - NLK-SYD - $420 (sale), $450 (saver) and $600 (flex)

18 Feb - QF183 - BNE-NLK - $421 (sale), $451 (saver) and $601 (flex)
18 Feb - QF184 - NLK-BNE - $396 (sale), $426 (saver) and $576 (flex)

Interestingly this time "sale" fares have been released although there not that cheap and like last time there are no business class fares or award seats.

Air New Zealand has said they've automatically rebooked people onto this Qantas flight:

 

[justinbrett]

I'm interested to know - if these are domestic flights, then why do the depart BNE and SYD int terminals (NZ), which is what I assume QF are doing as well (given their flight numbers are <400)

Because it's an external territory. You can buy duty free, you have to complete a customs declaration on return etc

I guess it's a bit of a grey area - international for some definitions and domestic for others.

Prior to Jul 2016, they weren't part of the Australian Migration Zone so they had their own permit system. The contract was held by ANZ prior to this date, so it would be interesting to see if Qantas got the next contract whether they'd try to move them to domestic terminals. They would have to do customs checks on departure from NLK but this is how it works in the US with its external territories (eg Puerto Rico).

 

[Ade]

My take is, AU ports should be serviced by "at least" one AU based airline. Two AU based airlines would be great, just to avoid the monopoly over the port/route and for pricing reasons

I don't see the value in having a foreign airline servicing one of our ports "exclusively".

 

[justinbrett]

My take is, AU ports should be serviced by "at least" one AU based airline. Two AU based airlines would be great, just to avoid the monopoly over the port/route and for pricing reasons

I don't see the value in having a foreign airline servicing one of our ports "exclusively".

It's a subsidised service - there must be a monopoly until such time tourist numbers can make the route financially viable.

I would be tipping a Qantas or Virgin contract at the next renewal. I'm not sure ANZ even wants it anymore.

 

[CMA222]

Ade said - "I don't see the value in having a foreign airline servicing one of our ports "exclusively".
justinbrett said "I would be tipping a Qantas or Virgin contract at the next renewal. I'm not sure ANZ even wants it anymore"

When the contract was originally awarded and subsequently renewed no Australian airline was interested. At the time of the first contract AirNZ served NLK from AKL as well, so there was an appropriate fit. QF now have surplus aircraft and flight crews so "watch this space" as it is a route that can be achieved "domestically".

It goes further then "duty free goods" (as has been noted) but no GST on NLK means that goods can go into NLK GST free and then be sent to the mainland, so there had to be some monitoring and control, not to mention claiming GST credits for goods sent from the mainland. There was also the biosecurity issues onto the island and return to the mainland.

NLK has been trying to get services run from domestic terminals for at least the last 30 years but it involves multiple Commonwealth departments and it has never been a high priority when the existing arrangements worked.

 

[justinbrett]

Ade said - "I don't see the value in having a foreign airline servicing one of our ports "exclusively".
justinbrett said "I would be tipping a Qantas or Virgin contract at the next renewal. I'm not sure ANZ even wants it anymore"

When the contract was originally awarded and subsequently renewed no Australian airline was interested. At the time of the first contract AirNZ served NLK from AKL as well, so there was an appropriate fit. QF now have surplus aircraft and flight crews so "watch this space" as it is a route that can be achieved "domestically".

It goes further then "duty free goods" (as has been noted) but no GST on NLK means that goods can go into NLK GST free and then be sent to the mainland, so there had to be some monitoring and control, not to mention claiming GST credits for goods sent from the mainland. There was also the biosecurity issues onto the island and return to the mainland.

NLK has been trying to get services run from domestic terminals for at least the last 30 years but it involves multiple Commonwealth departments and it has never been a high priority when the existing arrangements worked.

It’s really not that hard. You just pre-clear the departure at NLK as you would arrival on the mainland. I guess the question would be is it financially viable to have the extra Border Force staff located on the island to do those jobs.

In the US where this occurs there’s multiple flights daily, whereas NLK isn’t even a daily service.

I’m also a supporter of putting Border Force in NZ ports, at least AKL, so those flights can be treated as Domestic.

 

[CMA222]

It’s really not that hard. You just pre-clear the departure at NLK as you would arrival on the mainland. I guess the question would be is it financially viable to have the extra Border Force staff located on the island to do those jobs.

In the US where this occurs there’s multiple flights daily, whereas NLK isn’t even a daily service.

I’m also a supporter of putting Border Force in NZ ports, at least AKL, so those flights can be treated as Domestic.

Feel free to negotiate with the Commonwealth Government. There is no interest.

 

[justinbrett]

Feel free to negotiate with the Commonwealth Government. There is no interest.

There has been plenty of interest at the PM a level of both countries in the case of NZ

 

[henrus]

Once again the bubble pops and Qantas is back. It's all quite amusing how this keeps happening and shows why the two way bubble has been so slow.

At least they've sorted it out now which means Qantas has been willing to step in for flights the next day.

 

[Mattg]

Qantas has now been given the Norfolk Island contract for at least the next 3 months, with the potential to extend this.

There will be 3x weekly flights each from SYD and BNE using Boeing 737-800s.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/flying-kangaroo-to-launch-new-flights-to-norfolk-island/

 

[jakeseven7]

Qantas has now been given the Norfolk Island contract for at least the next 3 months, with the potential to extend this.

There will be 3x weekly flights each from SYD and BNE using Boeing 737-800s.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/flying-kangaroo-to-launch-new-flights-to-norfolk-island/

Good news and the right decision, see you later Air NZ

 

[henrus]

I suspect that Qantas might win the contract long-term although it's worth noting that fares are now a bit higher with QF than Air NZ.

 

[Mattg]

it's worth noting that fares are now a bit higher with QF than Air NZ.

That's true, although the Qantas fares include checked baggage & food on all fare types.

 

[henrus]

That's true, although the Qantas fares include checked baggage & food on all fare types.

I guess the biggest plus is the ability to use Qantas points, no idea about SYD-NLK but I could see some BNE-NLK award seats for 12,000 QF points and $123 taxes. At this stage, they've only loaded up to the 28th of March so perhaps there might be some business class award seats to come.

The next question is what happens to the Air NZ services, whilst there's nothing stopping them from still running the services they don't have the contract for the next 3 months (well it apparently expires at the end of financial year anyway) and I'm doubtful they'd get it again.

Will those booked on Air NZ get a credit, refund or be switched to the QF service and then what about those who got a seat on points... so many questions and so few answers. Likewise, Air NZ has been operating flights across the Tasman that schedule with these services and a weird green, teal and red colour for the quarantine classification of their trans Tasman flights (I wonder how long this will continue and if we'll see a major Air NZ schedule change as a result).

 

[motef]

So operating from the Int terminals as expected.

What lounge could you use at SYD?

Is this a chance for QF to do a soft relaunch of SYD Int lounges prior to October?

 

[Mattg]

So operating from the Int terminals as expected.

What lounge could you use at SYD?

Is this a chance for QF to do a soft relaunch of SYD Int lounges prior to October?

I don't believe there is currently a lounge available in the international terminal at SYD (or BNE for that matter).

 

[motef]

I don't believe there is currently a lounge available in the international terminal at SYD (or BNE for that matter).

QFs website show both lounges at Syd and the one at BNE as closed.