QF - get real!!!

[juddles]

Of course. But if a ticket costs $6k - $7k on QF and $5.5k on a competitor, I don't think it would swing them to the competitor.

And so it shouldnt. Unless we want to live in a world where the only carrier left standing is South China Airways

 

[Moopere]

Not disagreeing with you, but another way to express it, is perhaps, without the notion ¨excessive profits¨, and to say that many companies these days cannot make a company-sustaining and honest profit magin because they are undercut by fly-by-night internet competition.

I know the theory. Coming from a trade background I understand. One was always aware of the 'handyman' who was willing to do a job, on the side from his regular job, at 20-50% of the sustainable price for a trade professional to do it.

This theory doesn't fit exactly, in my opinion, in this case though as most of the airlines one is likely to fly on are not really 'fly by night' or cut-price-till-we-all-die type operations.

The market decides, ultimately, what an excessive profit or tax is... there is no objective measure. But with excellent communications are we are all afforded today, thanks to the internet, and with mass manufacturing and distribution taking products worldwide, its hard for the punters to understand really substantial price differentials based upon nothing more than _who_ is doing the buying.

Ultimately I agree with the other posts here. The market itself decides who lives and dies. IF you can charge a high price and survive in the marketplace ... well, good luck to you (and more power and so on and so forth). For thinking consumers, we're better off just going to the opposition and making a clear statement that way.

 

[juddles]

Moopere, I agree. My fear is simply that in the search for the almighty lowest price, which internet comparisons provide, we will annihilate the higher cost carriers. Blind Freddy should be able to see that asian, etc airlines will be able to undercut Qantas due to lower wages, etc. In a pure market world, that is what cold consumers should want and get. By the same reasoning we should also buy every single product from overseas that is cheaper, and ignore the whole ¨buy Australian¨ add campaigns. Not sure that I admire that path.

 

[Moopere]

Moopere, I agree. My fear is simply that in the search for the almighty lowest price, which internet comparisons provide, we will annihilate the higher cost carriers.

Sure. In the overall sense of driving for minimum cost and along with that minimum value and quality, I can't disagree.

The challenge to the high priced carriers though is surely not to simply be a high cost LCC. To survive, even against each other, they must add actual value. The LCC's coming from whichever region, are simply taking the price based fight right up to the incumbents. Some airlines are countering this with almost ridiculous opulence at the high end of the cost scale, others are pretending.

Given a quote I got recently of J PER-CDG with QF for $14.8K, I'm going to take a punt that QF are pretending. I'd go F, with another carrier that isn't an LCC before paying that.

But what really sticks in peoples eyes is what seems to be apparent discrimination. How can a QF flight, on QF metal cost $4800 PER-SIN-PER, when the same flight, with the same flight numbers on the same QF metal cost $2600 SIN-PER-SIN??? Why is the Grange for sale in the UK $100 when here its $200. It tastes the same, it comes from the same manufacturer, its in the same bottle ... its the same.

As for "Buy Australian" (or buy USA or buy UK), its my view that any form of protectionism just perpetuates bad business practises. Eventually you have to pay the piper (as a country) when your products and processes are so far behind world best that its laughable and your industry collapses completely. The buy-here-first idea, if successful, just buys some time.

I'll buy the best quality I can find for the job at hand.... note, not the most expensive (necessarily). If thats Australian made, great.

I see the marketplace dividing, and rapidly, between cheap and cough and quality but expensive. The middle ground seems to be evaporating. I wouldn't want to be in a business that makes fairly decent and moderately priced goods or services right now.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Thank you to all posters for your varied, thought provoking and interesting responses.

Latest update is whilst I cannot get J Savers into / out of PVG Apr 20/29 I have snared F Savers MEL-PEK-MEL Apr 19/29. J Savers MEL-PVG/PEK 62K - F Savers MEL-PVG/PEK 76K - same pts return - so F Saver ret 155K - more than I would like to pay but kinda in a bind.

Waitlisted J and F Savers PVG-SIN on 29th - SIN-MEL sector confirmed both classes - gotta love SQ huh?

 

[JohnK]

I suspect MU is purchasing the airfares cheaply from QF and then selling them at a reasonable profit not an exhorbitant profit.

Just because something is listed for ~$8,000 does not mean it is worth that amount but there will always be some people who would pay it. Especially those who spend someone else's money....

 

[Noob]

I will always fly QF because I have way too much money and can't spend it fast enough. Poor people please fly something else.

Please say you are being sarcastic!

 

[drewbles]

As others have said, market forces at work here.

Have you flown QF recently? They constantly have high load factors. If you look at it from their view, why should they lower their prices when people will pay for it?

Also, keep in mind there's a lot of corporate negotiated fares, that will see a lot of the cabins full of people paying nowhere near 'list price' for these J/F segments.

Vote with your feet, don't get angry at QF. If I was running a business, i'd do it too!

 

[maninblack]

Also, keep in mind there's a lot of corporate negotiated fares, that will see a lot of the cabins full of people paying nowhere near 'list price' for these J/F segments.

Vote with your feet, don't get angry at QF. If I was running a business, i'd do it too!

Actually those 'corporate fares' (and government fares) are not so low and will be bettered by many other carriers corporate fares but these travelers are not spending their money, they are spending their shareholders money (or taxpayer money) and are flying Qantas because that's where they have a corporate relationship. Why those relationships (QF has near monopoly with some corporates) are not being challenged or undone is a very interesting question.

 

[yohy?!]

I love a good conspiracy theory - I think MU is getting J inventory from QF at cost in exchange for helping them get JQ Hong Kong off the ground!

 

[Happy Trails]

Why those relationships (QF has near monopoly with some corporates) are not being challenged or undone is a very interesting question.

Chairmans Lounge?

 

[drewbles]

Actually those 'corporate fares' (and government fares) are not so low and will be bettered by many other carriers corporate fares but these travelers are not spending their money, they are spending their shareholders money (or taxpayer money) and are flying Qantas because that's where they have a corporate relationship. Why those relationships (QF has near monopoly with some corporates) are not being challenged or undone is a very interesting question.

It depends on which deal has been struck. I know of companies paying up to 40% less than a D fare on QF. The best deals never go to government of course.

 

[fbrimfield]

No earning QF status on a fare with MU, right? It's a shame, if there was a way to earn QF status i'd be taking these flights every couple months.

 

[simongr]

Actually those 'corporate fares' (and government fares) are not so low and will be bettered by many other carriers corporate fares but these travelers are not spending their money, they are spending their shareholders money (or taxpayer money) and are flying Qantas because that's where they have a corporate relationship. Why those relationships (QF has near monopoly with some corporates) are not being challenged or undone is a very interesting question.

We have great corporate fares with QF - but I still fly other carriers as QF are hugely more expensive. I do see colleagues though defaulting to QF for int'l flights though...

I do think that some people here assume that people flying "using other people's money" don't care at all. I would have to say that budget holders in corporates actually do care about the cost of flights. I have a budget I have to work within. If I pay more for a flight it means that I have less travel budget to spend or less training to spend on my team.

I do hope all the comments of "people flying on the shareholders' money don't care" are backed up by experience in a budget holder position.

I can not comment on govt employees flying on public sector budgets as I have no experience working there.

 

[maninblack]

I do hope all the comments of "people flying on the shareholders' money don't care" are backed up by experience in a budget holder position.

Where was the expression "don't care" used?

 

[Simo]

We have great corporate fares with QF - but I still fly other carriers as QF are hugely more expensive. I do see colleagues though defaulting to QF for int'l flights though...

I do think that some people here assume that people flying "using other people's money" don't care at all. I would have to say that budget holders in corporates actually do care about the cost of flights. I have a budget I have to work within. If I pay more for a flight it means that I have less travel budget to spend or less training to spend on my team.

I do hope all the comments of "people flying on the shareholders' money don't care" are backed up by experience in a budget holder position.

I can not comment on govt employees flying on public sector budgets as I have no experience working there.

IMO the person that is getting the flight probably could not care less but maybe the person(Budget holder Position) does care.

I have had flights where the cost is not an issue at all.

We just have to get there as quick as possible so we go via charter if there is no scheduled flights leaving at the time we need to go.

Try and avoid those situations if at all possible but when a client says I need someone here ASAP and you just go.