QF new Shanghai hub

[Andyzx]

From The Australian today. PVG might add a nice stop to Europe, need a OW lounge though:!:

AMBITIOUS Qantas plans to develop a Shanghai hub similar to its Singaporean operation are being slowed by European demands that the Qantas Sale Act be changed as part of an open skies agreement.
The airline is keen to build on its daily flights to Shanghai and set up a hub that would allow it to connect flights from Australia to destinations in Europe.
Australia recently concluded a bilateral aviation agreement with China that increased capacity into the world's most populous nation and gave Australian carriers the right to fly on to destinations in Europe....
Mr Joyce said... Shanghai was an ideal geographic hub. "It's great way of getting into Europe and it's a great way of us supporting more frequencies to other Australian destinations....QF would move quickly to introduce daily flights to Paris if restrictions on its operations were removed. :arrow:

link http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...a-expansion-plan/story-e6frg8zx-1226042449534

 

[samh004]

I’m not sure why Europe thinks they have the right to own everything, particularly things that aren’t European… and removing that Act would only lead to BA bringing Qantas down I’m sure

 

[TheInsider]

Hmmm Qantas into CDG??!

Mr Joyce said Qantas would also move quickly to introduce daily flights to Paris if restrictions on its operations were removed.

Or would this mean JQ again..

 

[airbound]

Hmmm Qantas into CDG??!



Or would this mean JQ again..

Is this plan a use for the 787s (however branded)?

 

[TheInsider]

Is this plan a use for the 787s (however branded)?

Well JQ are going to use SIN as their hub for the 787's.

 

[anat0l]

Using PVG or SHA as a hub might be a problem for most Australians because it appears you need a visa to enter China for any length of time for any purpose.

Whilst in transit without leaving airside this is not a problem, but when it comes to things like (perhaps) JQ->QF or non-interline transfers (because a customer fails to check this), or delays resulting in accommodating passengers, you will have a problem! Also, even if you are transiting, some ports may get nervous sending you without a visa to a place which would normally require you to hold a visa even though you don't technically need one. After all, the carrier could be fined if you happen to try and enter the country and need to be sent back.

 

[openseat]

Using PVG or SHA as a hub might be a problem for most Australians because it appears you need a visa to enter China for any length of time for any purpose.

Whilst in transit without leaving airside this is not a problem, but when it comes to things like (perhaps) JQ->QF or non-interline transfers (because a customer fails to check this), or delays resulting in accommodating passengers, you will have a problem! Also, even if you are transiting, some ports may get nervous sending you without a visa to a place which would normally require you to hold a visa even though you don't technically need one. After all, the carrier could be fined if you happen to try and enter the country and need to be sent back.

I've never done it, but at PVG you are allowed out overnight to make your connection. The restriction is that you have to stay nearby.

/ 21APR11 / 1453 UTC




National Australia (AU)
Transit China (People's Rep.) (CN)
Destination United Kingdom (GB)
ALSO CHECK DESTINATION INFORMATION BELOW

China (People's Rep.) (CN)

TWOV (Transit Without Visa):
- All transiting passengers are subject to passport control.

Passengers in transit are required to hold travel documents
accepted for entry into China (People's Rep.). For more
details on document requirements, please enter China
(People's Rep.) as a destination.

Visa required, except for Nationals of Australia, provided

arriving at and departing from Shanghai Hongqiao (SHA) or Pu

Dong (PVG) airports, continuing to a third country within 48

hours and holding confirmed onward tickets and all documents

required for next destination. At all other airports:

Visa required, except for Those passengers continuing their

journey within 24 hours (or within the same day at Guangzhou -
CAN) to a third country by the same or first connecting

aircraft, and holding documents and confirmed tickets for

their onward journey. Leaving the airport transit area is
allowed. Overnight facilities are available outside the

airport:

 

[anat0l]

I've never done it, but at PVG you are allowed out overnight to make your connection. The restriction is that you have to stay nearby.

Well, I guess that's all fair.

I'd be a wee bit concerned if another volcano in or near Europe decides to blow up, then. :-|

 

[Cruiser Elite]

I've never done it, but at PVG you are allowed out overnight to make your connection. The restriction is that you have to stay nearby.

Yeah good luck with this idea - dealing with Chinese Immigration makes Citibank look easy and straight forward

 

[pauly7]

Yeah good luck with this idea - dealing with Chinese Immigration makes Citibank look easy and straight forward

Well I find Citibank easy, not sure why some people struggle with them so I guess the Chinese must be a breeze

 

[thewinchester]

Yeah good luck with this idea - dealing with Chinese Immigration makes Citibank look easy and straight forward

I'd have to agree with you on this one.

I was considering an insane routing that would have taken me via PVG with a six-hour layover, which I was going to use to ride the maglev to the city and back.

From some good reading and checking information, it suggested that I would not require a visa for a 24hr or less layover. Being the diligant traveler, I made an effort to contact the Chinese Embassy (Perth) to confirm this....

...and stuff me they are hopeless. Took me two minutes to get through the switchboard to the right area, ten minutes waiting for them to pick up, and then instead of putting me on hold when they checked up on my question, they just left the handset off the hook leaving me to hear every conversation for five minutes.

 

[serfty]

...
...and stuff me they are hopeless. Took me two minutes to get through the switchboard to the right area, ten minutes waiting for them to pick up, and then instead of putting me on hold when they checked up on my question, they just left the handset off the hook leaving me to hear every conversation for five minutes.

So ... What happened? Did you need a Visa?

 

[thewinchester]

So ... What happened? Did you need a Visa?

I didn't travel via PVG in the end, as China Eastern flights don't earn status credits.

I was prepping to qualify PS, as my travel plans had me only 80SC short for Silver qualification (under prev. 350 rule). I considered flying it then purchasing QF J on SIN-PER, but availbility was zero. Instead flew CX J ICN-HKG-SIN, saved some coin compared to proposed QF sector, better expeirence, and qualified sooner earning bonuses on the last leg.

 

[elbarto]

...and stuff me they are hopeless. Took me two minutes to get through the switchboard to the right area, ten minutes waiting for them to pick up, and then instead of putting me on hold when they checked up on my question, they just left the handset off the hook leaving me to hear every conversation for five minutes.

This isn't unique to the Chinese. In a former life as a travel officer for a Government department I had to deal with many nations embassies and consulates, and by and large they were all useless. Indonesia were probably the worst. a Visa that was supposed to take 3 working days to issue would often take over 10 for no apparent reason.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Just some general comments about this Visa requirement / non requirement point in question.

I have been travelling to China 10 times a year for 15 years. Arriving into PEK, PVG, CAN, NKG and SZX. YES all my stays have included Visa / APEC entry into China proper - never transit - but having had that degree of experience I would NEVER attempt this non-visa entry during transit - NEVER.

Nothing in China is as it seems - NOTHING. If the govt tell you it is black - indeed you may well find it be red - light grey at best.

One example - the 2008 Olympics. Now we all know that the Olympic Games are the BIGGEST single promotional tool any country could use to promote their lucky city / country.

The Chinese were so paranoid about ensuring that no single event by a single individual would cause them embarassment in the worlds eyes that they virtually made it impossible to attend by so rigidly vetting visa applications that the whole processing system was so bogged down that indeed many people received their visas days before start date or indeed did not receive their visas in time. Indded many of the 5* hotels who had expected 100% occupancy operated at 50 to 70% during the games - and literally dozens of new 5* hotels were constructed to cater for the influx.

My APEC card expired at end Sept 2008 - I anticipated problems and attempted to renew in April - China suspended ALL APEC processing in March 2008 and did not recommence until October.

So the Chinese Govt had no qualms whatsoever in just totally ignoring the needs of business people who had been consistent reliable trading partners for years - they just did not give a s**t.

China has some of the most brilliant problems solvers in the world - but their is not an ounce of common sense in the whole country. It is the land of COMPLICATION and CONTRADICTION - if there is ever a difficult way to undertake and pursuit in China - they will find it. I rrepeat - I WOULD never attempt the non-visa entry / transit - NEVER.

Having said that - I am off to Shanghai tomorrow morning - MEL-SIN / SIN-PVG - god I love China.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

visa free transit is certainly possible provided you are in transit to a THIRD COUNTRY.

you cannot use visa free provisions if you are returning to the country you came from. So for example, you could not fly SYD-PVG-SYD visa free, but you COULD fly SYD=PVG-NRT and have your visa free stop for 24 hours.

There is no magic or mystery about this and there are dozens of reports on FT to confirm visa free travel DESPITE everyone seemingly 'knowing' that visa free travel is not possible (and in fact in many cases people have advised not to travel without a visa and have ended up costing the passenger a lot of money for no good reason).

You should carry a copy of the travel without visa conditions from the chinese embassy website to show to the airlines in case it is needed.

agree with cruiser elite that conditions do change - the olympics are a good example. But this is only intended as a transit provision. Not as a stopover or holiday. So in the event things do change, all you are 'out of pocket' is a few hours spent in the airport terminal instead of going into town.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Yes MEL-T all correct - the real point I was trying to make is that I just would not trust it in case the 'numb nut' who won't let you back in through immigration could result in you missing your connection.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes MEL-T all correct - the real point I was trying to make is that I just would not trust it in case the 'numb nut' who won't let you back in through immigration could result in you missing your connection.

yes - understand what you mean however you cannot get INTO china without a special 'visa-free' entry stamp. Getting that can sometimes prove time consuming according to reports (but not impossible, they just have to find the right perso with authority to use the stamp!). Once you have the entry in, getting out no worries.

So again, wost case scenario is that you can't get in, in which case you wait for the connection in the terminal.

would I rely on visa free entry to transfer between two non-refundable tickets from two different airports in China? no, not unless I bought them for almost immediate travel (so that the policy doesn't change). But I would certainly feel comfortable booking and planning a day's sightseeing in Shanghai if I had the opportunity.