QF purchase of Alliance Airlines, VA's wet-lease agreement future in doubt

[brentonnn]

Any thoughts on QF's full takeover of AA? News reporting that if the purchase goes ahead, Virgin's wet-lease agreement currently in play would cease. Return of VARA to the East Coast? New lease of smaller jets/props? Bring back the e-jets!

 

[HS-TQE]

VA are already utilising AirNorth for some regional Queensland services instead of Alliance, as well as flying some BNE-DRW services instead of mainline.
Ironically the E190s at Airnorth are leased from Alliance, but reported as a damp lease arrangement with Airnorth FAs crewing the E190s with Alliance pilots.

In NSW they are already utilising Link and have a current interline agreement with FlyPelican.

With the upcoming replacement of VARA's Fokkers with all-Economy 737-700s (reportedly from KLM), IMO, I'm tipping (speculating) at least two of those may make their way on larger Intercity Regional Queensland services and thin Queensland interstate routes at some point in the future.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

VARA as of now, ADL - PER is an all Y on the A320, really puts me off flying them.
If they bring in the all Y 737 on that route, I will go QF J both ways, and make it a one year only flight holiday.
No J, and have to phone up the VA call cent(er) in the Philippines to buy a comfort seat booking.
At least with QF ADL - PER/vv, there is the option to splurge and buy a J seat booking.

 

[Saab34]

It would seem that VA has already started pulling back it’s relationship with QQ.

Virgin 1.0 had them on many routes especially like BNE-CNS/MKY/ROK. Now it’s all just 737.

Surely with the cost base that VA has now, that a 737 wouldn’t be considered unprofitable on some routes, in the previous regime due to high costs it was probably unviable, and in comes the F100.

 

[HS-TQE]

It would seem that VA has already started pulling back it’s relationship with QQ.

Virgin 1.0 had them on many routes especially like BNE-CNS/MKY/ROK. Now it’s all just 737.

Surely with the cost base that VA has now, that a 737 wouldn’t be considered unprofitable on some routes, in the previous regime due to high costs it was probably unviable, and in comes the F100.

QQ are still operating the 3x weekly BNE-ISA on behalf of VA, although widely tipping this service will be eventually changed to a wetleased Airnorth (TL) E170 or E190.

Edit: Seems the remaining QQ flights (on behalf of VA) flights from what I can find ex-BNE are BNE-ISA, BNE-GLT and BNE-NTL. All either a mixture of F70 and F100s.

BNE-TSV currently has some of VA's flights operated by TL's E190s. I wouldn't be surprised if one of TL's E170s makes it to BNE-GLT.

 

[Saab34]

Air North would be a good side operator for Virgin to plug some gaps. AN have had pilot crewing issues for a while now so can’t see them expanding too much

 

[drivatruk]

I hate that Alliance do all the Virgin runs in and out of ROK. I just moved here and booked a Virgin flight and ended up on Alliance. 30 yo planes are not my first choice when it comes to flying. I am looking forward to Bonza coming to town with the Max. Google flights has Virgin using a 737 700 from the end of Jan 23.

 

[rockplat]

Another ROK resident here, very annoyed that Alliance is VA metal here. I booked business class, and got economy, still waiting for a refund 9 weeks later.

I hate that Alliance do all the Virgin runs in and out of ROK. I just moved here and booked a Virgin flight and ended up on Alliance. 30 yo planes are not my first choice when it comes to flying. I am looking forward to Bonza coming to town with the Max. Google flights has Virgin using a 737 700 from the end of Jan 23.

Flights revert to Alliance from April 2023

 

[Zanzara]

I hate that Alliance do all the Virgin runs in and out of ROK. I just moved here and booked a Virgin flight and ended up on Alliance. 30 yo planes are not my first choice when it comes to flying. I am looking forward to Bonza coming to town with the Max. Google flights has Virgin using a 737 700 from the end of Jan 23.

Know what you mean. Shame VA stopped flying their own aircraft to ROK this year. Hopefully they do actually bring them back. Looked at the history of the Alliance Fokker I was on couple of weeks ago, it was interesting... had previously been flying with AA & OS.

 

[HS-TQE]

Another ROK resident here, very annoyed that Alliance is VA metal here. I booked business class, and got economy, still waiting for a refund 9 weeks later.

Flights revert to Alliance from April 2023

That probably depends if ACCC clears the QF takeover. If blocked or deferred by the ACCC, you might see the Alliance Fokkers on the route.

Otherwise either AirNorth with their Embraers, a reduced mainline schedule or potentially the upcoming all-Y VARA 737-700s may find themselves on the route in 2023.

 

[drivatruk]

Know what you mean. Shame VA stopped flying their own aircraft to ROK this year. Hopefully they do actually bring them back. Looked at the history of the Alliance Fokker I was on couple of weeks ago, it was interesting... had previously been flying with AA & OS.

I laughed at the ashtray in the seat arm. I had 1Aand very squishy by the window. Wouldn't wanna be tall.

 

[simmomelb]

For those interested in the Alliance outcome (QF submission to buy the rest of Alliance) the decision was due to be announced on 4th Aug 2022, but due to "information provided by market participants" the outcome will now be announced on 18th Aug 2022.

 

[Saab34]

The market expectation seems to be that it’s going to be approved. Virgin running around doing deals with Link and Air North preparing.

Not sure what happens if it’s knocked back. I mean assume Alliance will continue it’s relationship as is with QF today.

 

[HS-TQE]

Considering there are Air North E90s and E70s operating some regional services for VA already, it's not really a surprise if QF's takeover of QQ gets approved.

Link's planned expansion into short intra-Qld routes such as the recently announced BNE-BDB route is another.

 

[Saab34]

I don’t believe the ACCC would factor Virgin’s shift away from Alliance as part of the reason to approve it however. They could even look at it the other way, ie players already retreating and making alternative arrangements, competition/monopoly Alliance concerns starting to show.

 

[simmomelb]

I'll be very surprised if it's approved.
It doesn't matter what the "industry" thinks will happen, the ACCC keep their cards close to their chest with matters such as this.

 

[simmomelb]

Not looking good for Qantas to take over Alliance due to lessening of competition concerns.
See the ACCC media release from this morning, scroll down the PDF under "ACCC Correspondance" Qantas’ proposed acquisition of Alliance Airlines.

 

[jase05]

Not looking good for Qantas to take over Alliance due to lessening of competition concerns.
See the ACCC media release from this morning, scroll down the PDF under "ACCC Correspondance" Qantas’ proposed acquisition of Alliance Airlines.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see QF take legal action if the ACCC block it

 

[simmomelb]

I wouldn’t be surprised to see QF take legal action if the ACCC block it

They are welcome to, just as Virgin has hinted the same if it's approved.
The ACCC doesn't take suggestions of legal.action into consideration, which probably goes without saying.
Interesting times ahead.

 

[jase05]

They are welcome to, just as Virgin has hinted the same if it's approved.
The ACCC doesn't take suggestions of legal.action into consideration, which probably goes without saying.
Interesting times ahead.

I don’t have any faith in the ACCC blocking it TBH. One of the most pathetic, toothless tiger organisations there is