Random Questions About Qantas

[Harpoon]

Mostly just out of curiosity....

1) Are the 744's supposed to be reitired when they eventually get enough A380's added to the fleet? Or will the 744's soldier on for decades?

2) I noticed on a recent trip, the 744's (in my opinion) could use a fresh coat of paint as they seemed a bit shabby compared to other airlines I saw parked at LHR and HKG. Is there a reason they haven't been updated with the new livery yet? Is it actually that expensive for a paint job?

3) Which route(s) are their first few A380's likely to operate? Kangaroo or Pacific? And from SYD or MEL (or both)? Can seats on them be booked yet?

4) When the 743 painted green (Nalanji Dreaming?) was scrapped, why wasn't that paint job moved to a 744? Surely the paint scheme was highly popular and created a lot of advertising and public awareness for the airline?

 

[simongr]

3) Which route(s) are their first few A380's likely to operate? Kangaroo or Pacific? And from SYD or MEL (or both)? Can seats on them be booked yet?

Can't help on the others but this I can provide what is common knowledge (rather than insider knowledge which might be quite different but if it is no-one is sharing).

The first scheduled route is planned to be MEL-LAX-MEL. This is due to operational reasons and a specific lack of capacity on that route.

It is likely that another route will be flown for the inaugural "paid" flight - it is suspected that this will be SYD-LAX as the world revolves around SYD, the greatest place on earth. It could however be anything that wil generate the biggest bang the buck in terms of profile, advertising, ambushing the competition.

No seats are available for booking as yet.

I am toying with booking a DONE4 flying syd-mel-lax.... in September on the off chance that I could cop an A380... but I expect to be in a 744...

 

[oz_mark]

Mostly just out of curiosity....
1) Are the 744's supposed to be reitired when they eventually get enough A380's added to the fleet? Or will the 744's soldier on for decades?

I don't think there are enough A380's on order to replace the fleet of 744's. Qantas will need to make a decision on their replacement soonish (within a couple of years) I would have thought.

From: Aviation Week : Qantas Plans Ambitious Asia-Pacific Expansion

While Qantas has more than 300 aircraft on order, it plans to buy even more. “Sometime this year we have to make a decision,” Borghetti says. A central issue is how to replace Qan­tas’s 30 747-400s. Their role will partly be taken over by the 20 A380s on order, but those aircraft couldn’t address significant growth opportunities. The key question Borghetti and his colleagues will need to answer over the next few months is whether to favor capacity or frequency.

Executives are weighing the addition of more A380s against placing a major order for either the Airbus A350XWB or the 787-10. Borghetti more or less rules out the 747-8 and 777. “The 747-8 does not do it for us,” he says. “From a customer perspective, it is not what we need.” While he concedes that the -8 was significantly upgraded, “it is still a 30-year-old aircraft,” Borghetti stresses. The shape of its fuselage does not easily accommodate Qantas’s new first- and business-class seats, and it would require a middle seat in business class on the main deck in the common 2-3-2 arrangement, which Borghetti does not like.

 

[simongr]

The shape of its fuselage does not easily accommodate Qantas’s new first- and business-class seats, and it would require a middle seat in business class on the main deck in the common 2-3-2 arrangement, which Borghetti does not like.

Have seat maps/configs been released for the A380? How are they getting around 2-3-2 in J?

I wonder what his objection is. Would it be that it's harder to sell the seats as you are more likely to have groups of two rather than lots of twos and ones.

I do love the A330 2-2-2 layout and the cabin generally but on a wider aircraft the only option to avoid 2-3-2 is herringbone or some new innovation that people havent thought of yet...

 

[NM]

Mostly just out of curiosity....

1) Are the 744's supposed to be reitired when they eventually get enough A380's added to the fleet? Or will the 744's soldier on for decades?

No plans yet have been announced for the retirement of QF's 744s. The initial A380 deliveries will free-up some 744s to operate new services. Some of these, like QF175/176 becoming a daily service, become reality before the A380 delivery due to the A330-200s coming on line.

The first QF 744 was delivered August 1989, so the oldest is less than 20 years old. The oldest ones have received the engine upgrades to include the Trend hot section which brings them up to the same efficiency level as the newer 744s (not the GE-powered 744-ERs). So there is no real driving force to retire the 744 fleet yet.

2) I noticed on a recent trip, the 744's (in my opinion) could use a fresh coat of paint as they seemed a bit shabby compared to other airlines I saw parked at LHR and HKG. Is there a reason they haven't been updated with the new livery yet? Is it actually that expensive for a paint job?

QF repaint their aircraft from time to time. At least one of the 744 fleet has received the new QF livery recently and is flying in the new shiny red and white. VH-OEB was the first 744 and it can be seen here and here (photo links courtesy of QFlyer (aka AFF member Wanala Dreaming)

3) Which route(s) are their first few A380's likely to operate? Kangaroo or Pacific? And from SYD or MEL (or both)? Can seats on them be booked yet?

This has been well documented by QF as being MEL-LAX followed by SYD-LAX.

4) When the 743 painted green (Nalanji Dreaming?) was scrapped, why wasn't that paint job moved to a 744? Surely the paint scheme was highly popular and created a lot of advertising and public awareness for the airline?

Its actually a blue base, not green. Its not going to fly again and is being used for parts to keep the other 743s flying until they can be retired after the A380 deliveries.

 

[Harpoon]

The first QF 744 was delivered August 1989, so the oldest is less than 20 years old. The oldest ones have received the engine upgrades to include the Trend hot section which brings them up to the same efficiency level as the newer 744s (not the GE-powered 744-ERs). So there is no real driving force to retire the 744 fleet yet.

Fair enough.

This has been well documented by QF as being MEL-LAX followed by SYD-LAX.

Thanks for that. I'm in Melb so at least I should be able to get some good photos!

Its actually a blue base, not green. Its not going to fly again and is being used for parts to keep the other 743s flying until they can be retired after the A380 deliveries.

Yeah I saw the photos of it being used as parts. I guess my main question was, why not repaint a 744 that's still active in the same colour? I just thought that in this competitive airline industry, surely anything that captures public attention for your particular airline is worth it... /shrug

 

[maninblack]

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6210644&nseq=0
This has been well documented by QF as being MEL-LAX followed by SYD-LAX.

Can you point us to the documentation?

 

[globetrekker]

Have seat maps/configs been released for the A380? How are they getting around 2-3-2 in J?

J on the A380 will be on the upper deck. As the cabin width is significantly narrower (5.9m, vs 6.58m on the main deck), the A380 can then be configured in a 2-2-2 layout.

Regarding repaint, usually it's done at major maintenance intervals (C/D Checks), as there are significant time and cost factors involved. OEB received the new livery courtesy of a C Check late last month.

 

[simongr]

Can you point us to the documentation?

A380 is plane and simply big | Herald Sun

About Qantas - Newsroom <- note that QF don't explicitly say it will be MEL-LAX first...

@globetrekker Stupid me - didn't think about that - cheers

 

[Harpoon]

Regarding repaint, usually it's done at major maintenance intervals (C/D Checks), as there are significant time and cost factors involved. OEB received the new livery courtesy of a C Check late last month.

Scuse my noobiness, whats a C check or a D check? I'm not down with all the lingo hehe. I'm assuming one is engine maintenance?

 

[maninblack]

A380 is plane and simply big | Herald Sun

About Qantas - Newsroom <- note that QF don't explicitly say it will be MEL-LAX first...

@globetrekker Stupid me - didn't think about that - cheers

Yep 2-3 year old articles. Things have changed since then, like V Australia. To quote the Herald-Sun, "The airline also revealed its first commercial A380 flight will be between Melbourne and Los Angeles in May or June 2007." I think I missed that flight!

I can't find any recent reference to a commitment from QF to MEL-LAX as first route, and it's not in any schedules and QF won't confirm or deny. We shall see.

 

[serfty]

There's a post on FT by a Qantas group employee who has given some accurate Goss more than once.

Here's their take on this from January this year:

Melbourne - Los Angeles will be the first route the A380 will operate however it will not be the first flight. That will take place from Sydney. To where I don't know but most likely Los Angeles as well.

 

[globetrekker]

Scuse my noobiness, whats a C check or a D check? I'm not down with all the lingo hehe. I'm assuming one is engine maintenance?

Basically all of these include some form of engine maintenance.

There are four levels of checks on the QF 744s: A Check, Super A Check, C Check and D Check. The complexity, and interval between each check increases between each one of these. An A Check is done every 750 hours, and can be completed within 12-24 hours. A C Check occurs every 18 months or so, and focuses more towards the mechanical side. A D Check is carried out roughly every 5 years and can take several weeks. During this time, basically everything removable is removed from the aircraft and all parts thoroughly inspected, overhauled or replaced. An extensive airframe inspection also takes place, checking for any signs of cracking, corrosion or fatigue etc.

Hope that helps.

 

[Harpoon]

Basically all of these include some form of engine maintenance.

There are four levels of checks on the QF 744s: A Check, Super A Check, C Check and D Check. The complexity, and interval between each check increases between each one of these. An A Check is done every 750 hours, and can be completed within 12-24 hours. A C Check occurs every 18 months or so, and focuses more towards the mechanical side. A D Check is carried out roughly every 5 years and can take several weeks. During this time, basically everything removable is removed from the aircraft and all parts thoroughly inspected, overhauled or replaced. An extensive airframe inspection also takes place, checking for any signs of cracking, corrosion or fatigue etc.

Hope that helps.

Excellent! Thanks for the info.

 

[NM]

Scuse my noobiness, whats a C check or a D check? I'm not down with all the lingo hehe. I'm assuming one is engine maintenance?

Aircraft maintenance checks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[NM]

Yep 2-3 year old articles. Things have changed since then, like V Australia. To quote the Herald-Sun, "The airline also revealed its first commercial A380 flight will be between Melbourne and Los Angeles in May or June 2007." I think I missed that flight!

And QF has not indicated any change to their already stated plans for the introduction of the A380. I don't see that V Australia or anything else that has happened in the last 2-3 years will bring about a change to their plans to start trans-Pacific with the A380, and MEL-LAX in particular.

I can't find any recent reference to a commitment from QF to MEL-LAX as first route, and it's not in any schedules and QF won't confirm or deny. We shall see.

We shall indeed. Its not going to get into an schedules until they have a known service entry date, and that won't be until a lot closer to delivery.

Yes, this one is old (18/01/2005), but states MEL-LAX:

Qantas Airways said today it would make aviation history with its first A380 aircraft by operating the longest 500-passenger service in the world, flying between Melbourne and Los Angeles.

This one is quite recent:

As yet the exact delivery date and first commercial flight of the Qantas A380 is unknown, Qantas have stated their first aircraft will service the Melbourne to Los Angeles route and flights will begin in August 2008.

So is this one from January 2008:

Upon receiving the keys to the first A380, Qantas will immediately put it to work on the Melbourne-Los Angeles run.

This one again goes back to November 2005, but is a media release from the Vic government:

“I am delighted with Qantas’ decision that the Melbourne-Los Angeles services will be the first to use the A380. North America is one of Victoria’s key international markets,” Mr Pandazopoulos said.

As I cannot find any reference to anything other than MEL-LAX being the first commercial route for QF A380, I see no reason to expect that it will not be MEL-LAX. I stand by my comment that MEL-LAX has been well documented as the first commercial route for QF's A380.

 

[maninblack]

Hi NM. I don't want to split hairs but you said,

This has been well documented by QF as being MEL-LAX followed by SYD-LAX.

My contention is that, yes it has been well documented, but not by QF, I think that the comments from QF leave options open. I think the V Australia launch will influence the QF decision. V will have brand new aircraft with true flat sleepers SYD-LAX (UA will also have new true flat seating in Biz and new suites in F by year end) while QF will have 10 year old 744's with angled Skybeds and a rather old First class seat.

On another matter, is it correct that to run a daily MEL-LAX, or SYD-LAX for that matter QF would require 3 x A380's to be in service? If so this would mean that the initial service with 380's may not be daily.

 

[simongr]

On another matter, is it correct that to run a daily MEL-LAX, or SYD-LAX for that matter QF would require 3 x A380's to be in service? If so this would mean that the initial service with 380's may not be daily.

Given the flight is roughly 14 hours each way plus time on the ground you are probably looking at 30+ hours for the round trip so yes not possible for a single AC to do a daily rtn trip.

I am not even sure what that 1 AC could do a early flight one day followed by later flight the next given that from SYD the flights are 9:45, 10:20 and 13:20.

DOing some rough calc's the bird leaves SYD at 9:45, gets back say 5Pm the next day - what would they do with the A380 for the next 16 hours? A quick SYD-MEL-SYD

 

[NM]

Hi NM. I don't want to split hairs but you said,

My contention is that, yes it has been well documented, but not by QF, I think that the comments from QF leave options open. I think the V Australia launch will influence the QF decision. V will have brand new aircraft with true flat sleepers SYD-LAX (UA will also have new true flat seating in Biz and new suites in F by year end) while QF will have 10 year old 744's with angled Skybeds and a rather old First class seat.

On another matter, is it correct that to run a daily MEL-LAX, or SYD-LAX for that matter QF would require 3 x A380's to be in service? If so this would mean that the initial service with 380's may not be daily.

Yes, it requires 3 aircraft to operate a daily MEL/SYD-LAX service. This is because its more than 12 hours each way plus turn-around times.

I don't think QF is going to be too concerned about V Australia's new aircraft vs 744 competition in the short term. For the same reason QF can only operate one daily A380 service with 3 aircraft, V Australia will only be doing one daily for a while until they get more aircraft. So V Australia will have a maximum capacity of around 40 business class seats per day, compared with QF's 180 or so from SYD. By the time V Australia can increase capacity, QF will have sufficient A380s to make SYD-LAX daily as well.

I think the driving force behind MEL-LAX is two-fold. The flight length makes it more beneficial cost-wise for the A380 than 744. And secondly the demand on MEl-LAX is such they they need the combination of QF93 and QF25. Not enough for double daily 744 (as they have run in the past) but too much for single 744 without the supplement of the AKL routed QF25 A332. So current capacity is well suited to MEL-LAX for A380.

 

[Paul_PER]

I'm pretty sure MEL-LAX was going to be the first route simply because MEL was going to be ready for A380's before SYD. Since A380 deliveries are running so late SYD has had extra time to prepare so I reckon SYD-LAX will get regular services before MEL.