Reduced chance of international operational upgrades on Qantas?

[dvt]

I'm just wondering whether the following change in the upgrade process will reduce the likelihood of operational upgrades"


"Fewer empty seats - We will be processing Flight Upgrade Awards closer to the time of departure. This will allow our members to access additional upgrade seats made available due to last-minute cancellations in First, Business and Premium Economy"

I've also heard of some people being upgraded at the gate only to find that points have been deducted from their accounts due to an earlier upgrade request.

I've been pretty lucky with op up's having had around a 40% success rate on international flights in the past 4 years as SG. Now that I've got a taste for premium cabins I'm now considering using points to lock in future upgrades. My next flight is in April to LHR so trying to decide what to do.

I've always booked economy in the past, this being my first time booking premium econ so if a points or op-up doesn't come through it wont really be a major disappointment...

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I'm just wondering whether the following change in the upgrade process will reduce the likelihood of operational upgrades"


"Fewer empty seats - We will be processing Flight Upgrade Awards closer to the time of departure. This will allow our members to access additional upgrade seats made available due to last-minute cancellations in First, Business and Premium Economy"

I've also heard of some people being upgraded at the gate only to find that points have been deducted from their accounts due to an earlier upgrade request.

I've been pretty lucky with op up's having had around a 40% success rate on international flights in the past 4 years as SG. Now that I've got a taste for premium cabins I'm now considering using points to lock in future upgrades. My next flight is in April to LHR so trying to decide what to do.

I've always booked economy in the past, this being my first time booking premium econ so if a points or op-up doesn't come through it wont really be a major disappointment...

There is no facility to deduct points at the gate for upgrades so I don't think you've got the full story from your friends or the message has got garbled somewhere.

If they had a waitlist for a points upgrade internationally, is it possible they did OLCI in economy & printed out the boarding pass at T-24, then maybe the points upgrade was done 18 hours before thus appearing like the upgrade was done at the gate when the whY boarding pass would have rejected?

 

[dvt]

There is no facility to deduct points at the gate for upgrades so I don't think you've got the full story from your friends or the message has got garbled somewhere.

If they had a waitlist for a points upgrade internationally, is it possible they did OLCI in economy & printed out the boarding pass at T-24, then maybe the points upgrade was done 18 hours before thus appearing like the upgrade was done at the gate when the whY boarding pass would have rejected?

My initial post never stated that points were deducted at the gate although your comment about OLCI and boarding passes could have applied. Nevertheless, my initial question relates to the reduced chances of international upgrades for which I am seeking comment

 

[medhead]

My initial post never stated that points were deducted at the gate although your comment about OLCI and boarding passes could have applied. Nevertheless, my initial question relates to the reduced chances of international upgrades for which I am seeking comment

I think it would be a reduced chance of op-ups, with the new system there is potentially more upgrades available.

BTW I read your post to mean points had been taken, but that's just me.

 

[bugayev]

There is no facility to deduct points at the gate for upgrades so I don't think you've got the full story from your friends or the message has got garbled somewhere.

If they had a waitlist for a points upgrade internationally, is it possible they did OLCI in economy & printed out the boarding pass at T-24, then maybe the points upgrade was done 18 hours before thus appearing like the upgrade was done at the gate when the whY boarding pass would have rejected?

At the AFF lunch, Stephanie Tully did say that they would re-process the waitlisted upgrade queue after checkin had closed to provide the maximum chance of a points upgrade clearing.. I'd guess that would mean that points would be deducted super late in the process, potentially just before departure?

 

[dfcatch]

I'm not sure it effects Opup likelihood.

I guess the first question is - up until now - how many people have had their upgrade request rejected, then to find themselves getting an Opup?

I would suspect not many.

Even under the T-5 upgrade clearing process, QF has a pretty good understanding over oversold/potentially oversold flights and no doubt processes a few more points upgrades at T-5 to make room in Y.

I see the situation as no change - in relation to Opup chances.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm just wondering whether the following change in the upgrade process will reduce the likelihood of operational upgrades"


"Fewer empty seats - We will be processing Flight Upgrade Awards closer to the time of departure. This will allow our members to access additional upgrade seats made available due to last-minute cancellations in First, Business and Premium Economy"

I've also heard of some people being upgraded at the gate only to find that points have been deducted from their accounts due to an earlier upgrade request.

I've been pretty lucky with op up's having had around a 40% success rate on international flights in the past 4 years as SG. Now that I've got a taste for premium cabins I'm now considering using points to lock in future upgrades. My next flight is in April to LHR so trying to decide what to do.

I've always booked economy in the past, this being my first time booking premium econ so if a points or op-up doesn't come through it wont really be a major disappointment...

I can sympathise. I am usually ( by affordability ) a y cabin inhabitant. But after i have been sitting in front, I now no longer want to do tHw long walk to the rear. So I am finding ways to upgrade with points and watching specials.
Fly less often but fly better



The more I see of men........... the more I love my dog

My initial post never stated that points were deducted at the gate although your comment about OLCI and boarding passes could have applied. Nevertheless, my initial question relates to the reduced chances of international upgrades for which I am seeking comment

I think that one has to book JASA or JCA about 12 months out to ensure the best result. Problem is , of many know their plans hat far out


The more I see of men........... the more I love my dog

I think it would be a reduced chance of op-ups, with the new system there is potentially more upgrades available.

BTW I read your post to mean points had been taken, but that's just me.

Then again if upgrades are becoming thinner on the ground , one wold have to wonder why a ff programme is of any benefit to either traveller or airline. Who or example has ever been able to buy a flight using flybuys?
The whole idea of a loyalty programme was just that......loyalty. I am to a Bossreggie when it comes to flying, so not so valuable to QF I suppose. BUT I am a most loyal member and unless something changes in te future (Lotto ) I am unlikely to be anything else , so I suppose it will be punter productive to make up's more difficult to get on points.


On the whole upgrade and value to air
One thing, I wonder if bossreggie were to book a long haul in Y wold he be automatically upgraded? And if so how far J? F?

It would be interesting to see. Methinks he could change when booking in if nothing were forthcoming.



The more I see of men........... the more I love my dog

 

[Kangol]

If you request an upgrade at the lounge at less than T-5 and it gets approved, does that get classed as a points upgrade or a "facilitated" op-up?

 

[dfcatch]

If you request an upgrade at the lounge at less than T-5 and it gets approved, does that get classed as a points upgrade or a "facilitated" op-up?

You can't request an on departure upgrade at the lounge on international.

This thread relates to international upgrades.

For domestic on departure upgrades, this is a points upgrade.

 

[Ewing]

I guess the first question is - up until now - how many people have had their upgrade request rejected, then to find themselves getting an Opup?

My housemate (WP) has a number of times.

Points upgrade from J -> F requested and declined only to get the magical beep at the gate.

 

[dfcatch]

My housemate (WP) has a number of times.

Points upgrade from J -> F requested and declined only to get the magical beep at the gate.

I suspect this is more a flow from Y oversold, and QF deciding to approve upgrade requests from folks in Y rather than giving them a free Opup.

So my point stands in relation to Y upgrades.

As to your friend - I believe that either under the new or old systems, he would still get an Opup in this case regardless of requesting and upgrade or not.

 

[Berlin]

There is no facility to deduct points at the gate for upgrades so I don't think you've got the full story from your friends or the message has got garbled somewhere.

Hmm. Very interesting! Maybe then someone can explain the following to me: I had a case a short while ago when I asked at check in whether the upgrade from J to F had come through and the lady said "No, you're out of luck". That was approx at T-3. Asked the same question about an hour later in the lounge, same reply. At the gate, however, I got a beep and red light and was ugraded to F, the lady saying something along the lines of "You're lucky today and won the main prize!" so I was assuming this had been an Opup.

However, when I checked my online profile, the points had been deducted for this upgrade which must have happened in the one or so hour between me asking a last time at the lounge (and checking my FF profile online from there as well) and sitting on the plane preparing for take off and checking my FF profile one last time before switching off my mobile :shock:

 

[medhead]

Then again if upgrades are becoming thinner on the ground , one wold have to wonder why a ff programme is of any benefit to either traveller or airline.

I wan't suggesting points upgrades are becoming thinner on the ground.

I'm not sure it effects Opup likelihood.

<snip>

I see the situation as no change - in relation to Opup chances.

My comment was theoretical on the assumption there are a fixed number of upgrades on any given flight. If points upgrade requests are now being processed multiple times (and possibly becoming easier[SUP]*[/SUP] to get) then the need to do op-ups is reduced.


[SUP]*[/SUP] This is a relative term not an absolute term, easier to get but still as rare as hen's teeth

 

[dfcatch]

I tend to agree with Medhead, but I still don't think the new upgrade system will affect opups much.

Let me explain..... Upgrades and
Opups serve two different purposes.

Upgrades are to fill empty seats in the higher cabin - to please FFs. (and QF receives the points revenue).

Opups are to free up full seats in the lower cabin to accommodate an oversold situation (or seating problem). This is done to please QF and allow it to not have to deny boarding to said oversold pax.

Now, opups are generally only going to occur in oversold situations, so if that prerequisite doesn't exist - no opups.

Upgrades require a free seat in the higher cabin to be available at time of processing.

Up until now, if someone no showed in J, and you were in whY and had your upgrade request rejected, bad luck. Under the new system, these no shows may result in an additional round of upgrade processing which may get you up, if previously rejected.

I believe IMHO that the different drivers behind the need for opups vs upgrades, means that there is little or no crossover between the two.

I may be wrong - but I don't believe this will impact.

Besides, to get an Opup you need:

1/ An oversold situation
2/ A failed or non-existent upgrade request
3/ Be lucky enough to be the one they upgrade (not always in status order IME)

 

[medhead]

Totally forgot to mention , I'm only really thinking about Y upgrades. What happens in the higher cabin to accommodate the needs of the Y cabin (e.g. oversold) would be a different thing. I agree that would remain unchanged.

 

[Kangol]

You can't request an on departure upgrade at the lounge on international.

This thread relates to international upgrades.

For domestic on departure upgrades, this is a points upgrade.

Oh. Whoops.
Well I guess what happened to me is an exception to the rule:

About a week ago, I was on QF10 LHR-SIN-MEL which was delayed about 12 hours due to aircraft damage. I was ticketed in 38J and the LHR-SIN leg was a very light load (half or less of the PE cabin full) as supposedly other paxs got on another flight the previous night to get them home.
As no one was in 38K I sat there for the entire flight. When I got to SIN I wanted to try my luck to get 38K in case there were more paxs and I couldn't "sit in the empty seat" next to me. I asked at the SIN J lounge for a seat change (at probably T-1 for the SIN-MEL departure) and long story short, I was placed in 16B

No points were deducted for this upgrade and my activity statement shows as normal: crediting for the standard PE LHR-MEL. Hence my original question. But anyway, clearly a stroke of luck as the J cabin was full.. and clearly an exception to standard procedures. Now, I'm not one to complain

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Hmm. Very interesting! Maybe then someone can explain the following to me: I had a case a short while ago when I asked at check in whether the upgrade from J to F had come through and the lady said "No, you're out of luck". That was approx at T-3. Asked the same question about an hour later in the lounge, same reply. At the gate, however, I got a beep and red light and was ugraded to F, the lady saying something along the lines of "You're lucky today and won the main prize!" so I was assuming this had been an Opup.

However, when I checked my online profile, the points had been deducted for this upgrade which must have happened in the one or so hour between me asking a last time at the lounge (and checking my FF profile online from there as well) and sitting on the plane preparing for take off and checking my FF profile one last time before switching off my mobile :shock:

The points upgrades are not done by the gate agent they simply would do a reprint of your new boarding pass as a result of the upgrade being actioned elsewhere, possibly by the same department who do the points upgrades 7 days to 24 days prior.

It sounds like it was a result of a commercial pax who noshowed so they wouldn't have actioned the upgrade until they closed the flight 45-60 minutes prior to departure when it would have been too late for anyone booked on the flight to checkin.

QF said they introduced the above in response to members complaining that there were empty seats eg in the J cabin (as a result of a noshow) but they still weren't allowed to use their points to upgrade to those seats.

It's quite possible that under the old system (ie points upgrades not actioned on the day) status pax would have got the higher class anyway as an op-up (ie nil cost in points to the pax) however now the airline has carte blanche in still using those points any time prior to flight close.

Wonder if the following scenario is now feasible under the new system:

2 J class seats left over & flight oversold by 2 so they need to upgrade 2 pax to J. First two pax (WP's) to go up according to hierachy/PCV don't have a points upgrade request however another WP couple further down the list in the PCV get the upgrade to J because they still had a points upgrade request in.

 

[Berlin]

It sounds like it was a result of a commercial pax who noshowed so they wouldn't have actioned the upgrade until they closed the flight 45-60 minutes prior to departure when it would have been too late for anyone booked on the flight to checkin.

Thanks for that explanation, makes perfect sense! I was aware that it's not the gate agents themselves deciding on the upgrade but thought it would be actioned much earlier.

It's quite possible that under the old system (ie points upgrades not actioned on the day) status pax would have got the higher class anyway as an op-up (ie nil cost in points to the pax) however now the airline has carte blanche in still using those points any time prior to flight close.

Hmm. More questions. :?: This incidence had been well BEFORE the "new" system came into place!:shock:

 

[dvt]

The points upgrades are not done by the gate agent they simply would do a reprint of your new boarding pass as a result of the upgrade being actioned elsewhere, possibly by the same department who do the points upgrades 7 days to 24 days prior.

It sounds like it was a result of a commercial pax who noshowed so they wouldn't have actioned the upgrade until they closed the flight 45-60 minutes prior to departure when it would have been too late for anyone booked on the flight to checkin.

QF said they introduced the above in response to members complaining that there were empty seats eg in the J cabin (as a result of a noshow) but they still weren't allowed to use their points to upgrade to those seats.

It's quite possible that under the old system (ie points upgrades not actioned on the day) status pax would have got the higher class anyway as an op-up (ie nil cost in points to the pax) however now the airline has carte blanche in still using those points any time prior to flight close.

Wonder if the following scenario is now feasible under the new system:

2 J class seats left over & flight oversold by 2 so they need to upgrade 2 pax to J. First two pax (WP's) to go up according to hierachy/PCV don't have a points upgrade request however another WP couple further down the list in the PCV get the upgrade to J because they still had a points upgrade request in.

Thanks for all of the comments to my question, clearly lots of differing views and opinions. Ozbeachbabe, your comment about the new system and Qantas having carte blanche about using passengers points is exactly how I'm thinking. Under the new system they could theoretically use failed point upgrade request passengers to move from one cabin to the next. They would then deduct points rather than award the flight as an op-up. Just a thought....

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I have done points upgrades internationally as I prefer to do JASA's outright although obviously not everybody will have the points to do this each time they travel.

At what point can you cancel a points upgrade request ie how late can you leave it for instance if you checkin & they say "sorry it didn't come through" can you still remove the request at that late stage to avoid getting your points at the last minute for an upgrade due to commercial noshows which would have once upon a time been an op-up?