Slow Processing of Inbound PAX at SYD T1

[RooFlyer]

Bring on WSI!

Just gone through SYD international arrivals, immigration etc. Ticket machines 15 deep - kiosks same. Non Oz queues very very long. Can’t see how they can expand the current layout.

Bus Int—>Dom stuck half way due to a queue of planes waiting to cross in front, in turn delayed by a plane with a problem departing dom gate.

SYD can continue to be the gateway to Sydney CBD, but I can’t wait for a modern international airport to fly into and transit if necessary.

Do they plan to have a hotel attached?

 

[jase05]

Bring on WSI!

Just gone through SYD international arrivals, immigration etc. Ticket machines 15 deep - kiosks same. Non Oz queues very very long. Can’t see how they can expand the current layout.

Bus Int—>Dom stuck half way due to a queue of planes waiting to cross in front, in turn delayed by a plane with a problem departing dom gate.

SYD can continue to be the gateway to Sydney CBD, but I can’t wait for a modern international airport to fly into and transit if necessary.

Do they plan to have a hotel attached?

There will be a hotel from the get go but I’d imagine it would mainly be used for crew. I think it’s only 150 rooms or something but as business grows I’d expect more hotels are built

 

[tdimdad]

Just gone through SYD international arrivals, immigration etc. Ticket machines 15 deep - kiosks same. Non Oz queues very very long. Can’t see how they can expand the current layout.

By reducing the footprint given to the expansive duty free shop and allocating more space for the official operation of an airport.

Oh, wait...

 

[justinbrett]

Simple solution, make it a pre-boarding requirement to fill out your arrivals card that gives you a QR code.

As if WSI is going to be any different. Staffing levels and technology don't depend on the postcode.

 

[elanshin]

Simple solution, make it a pre-boarding requirement to fill out your arrivals card that gives you a QR code.

As if WSI is going to be any different. Staffing levels and technology don't depend on the postcode.

We should've gotten rid of paper arrival cards during covid.

Best time to test and implement new arrivals system.

 

[justinbrett]

We should've gotten rid of paper arrival cards during covid.

Best time to test and implement new arrivals system.

I thought we were doing that, but it seems to have been quietly shelved.

Even with the kiosk, you still need to fill out a paper form.

The problem is nothing to do with the layout of the terminal.

 

[RooFlyer]

Simple solution, make it a pre-boarding requirement to fill out your arrivals card that gives you a QR code.

Like other places. But that only deals with one's arrival details and customs/bio security doesn't it? You'd still have to prove identity by using the ticket machines then kiosks etc - and that was the jam when I went through, not the customs post-baggage collection.

As if WSI is going to be any different. Staffing levels and technology don't depend on the postcode.

The issue at Sydney (and Melbourne IIRC) I observed is the lack of space available to fit enough machines/booths in to handle the surges, not the staffing levels or available technology. Old, legacy airports hemmed in by old infrastructure - the immigration space at SYD is just a joke for the country's busiest entry point.

(And just wandering off on another tangent, I wonder what the emergency evacuation procedure would be in that immigration hall in case of, say, fire alarm- there must be hundreds of people jammed in there at peaks. How would it go if there was smoke, or the smell of smoke?)

I would expect WSI to have a modern arrivals hall planned ahead to accommodate numbers expected and future growth.

 

[elanshin]

Like other places. But that only deals with one's arrival details and customs/bio security doesn't it? You'd still have to prove identity by using the ticket machines then kiosks etc - and that was the jam when I went through, not the customs post-baggage collection.



The issue at Sydney (and Melbourne IIRC) I observed is the lack of space available to fit enough machines/booths in to handle the surges, not the staffing levels or available technology. Old, legacy airports hemmed in by old infrastructure - the immigration space at SYD is just a joke for the country's busiest entry point.

(And just wandering off on another tangent, I wonder what the emergency evacuation procedure would be in that immigration hall in case of, say, fire alarm- there must be hundreds of people jammed in there at peaks. How would it go if there was smoke, or the smell of smoke?)

I would expect WSI to have a modern arrivals hall planned ahead to accommodate numbers expected and future growth.

The secret is to ignore the staff that's asking if you filled your card out and get right to the immigration gates where there's a bunch more machines. But everyone being good citizens line up before then and thus those machines are almost always empty

 

[dajop]

The secret is to ignore the staff that's asking if you filled your card out and get right to the immigration gates where there's a bunch more machines. But everyone being good citizens line up before then and thus those machines are almost always empty

At MEL, I've mainly had recent experiences with evening arrivals and that is indeed the case, although the half a dozen or so people at each machine in the main corridor is barely worth noting.

In recent 6am arrival, it was insanely bad - it's not just a SYD problem - probably 20+ people per machine and I tried to go down the laneway bypassing the machines, like I usually do in the evening, and got sternly told off by a staff member on a power trip. In any event machines near gates had just as long queues. Main solution I see would having more machines closer to gates (for example, in the international annex).

 

[RooFlyer]

The secret is to ignore the staff that's asking if you filled your card out and get right to the immigration gates where there's a bunch more machines. But everyone being good citizens line up before then and thus those machines are almost always empty

Again, in my case, the whole place was jammed. The ticket machines in the corridors before the immigration hall, and those in the immigration hall. There is simply not enough space.

There was someone at the 'airplane-end' of the system (where queues for the ticket machines were 15 long) telling people that there were more ticket machines 'further down', so I continued, only to find that everywhere was jammed.

I tried to go down the laneway bypassing the machines, like I usually do in the evening, and got sternly told off by a staff member on a power trip.

About 10m back from where this pic was taken, there was an officer who directed me to the 'Aus & NZ families' lane. I asked and she confirmed it would be OK without a ticket. Immigration was processed in the old fashioned way and, all being Oz or NZ people, the line moved reasonably quickly. At customs, I think there was even a sign stating 'Present your arrivals card and ticket (if you have one)'.

 

[elanshin]

Again, in my case, the whole place was jammed. The ticket machines in the corridors before the immigration hall, and those in the immigration hall. There is simply not enough space.

There was someone at the 'airplane-end' of the system (where queues for the ticket machines were 15 long) telling people that there were more ticket machines 'further down', so I continued, only to find that everywhere was jammed.

View attachment 390196



About 10m back from where this pic was taken, there was an officer who directed me to the 'Aus & NZ families' lane. I asked and she confirmed it would be OK without a ticket. Immigration was processed in the old fashioned way and, all being Oz or NZ people, the line moved reasonably quickly. At customs, I think there was even a sign stating 'Present your arrivals card and ticket (if you have one)'.

Ok I haven't seen it this full, granted I usually get to SYD around 8am. Funnily I see this as still better than what MEL has. They also definitely need to increase their arrival area capacity.

 

[justinbrett]

Like other places. But that only deals with one's arrival details and customs/bio security doesn't it? You'd still have to prove identity by using the ticket machines then kiosks etc - and that was the jam when I went through, not the customs post-baggage collection..

No, I'm saying there shouldn't be a kiosk. It should just be an e-gate, just like departures. The job of the e-gate is to prove your identity. Everything else is done online before departure. Get rid of the passport scanning and this will process pax at least 5 times faster.

There are duplicate passport control facilities in arrivals, plus all the space currently taken up by kiosks. The baggage hall seems massive. I'm sure some smart boffin could make some tweaks to add in more e-gates within the existing footprint.

The ones in departures seem to cope fine even in peak times, the bottle neck is security but even then it's comparable to most global airports.

 

[dairyfloss]

No, I'm saying there shouldn't be a kiosk. It should just be an e-gate, just like departures. The job of the e-gate is to prove your identity. Everything else is done online before departure. Get rid of the passport scanning and this will process pax at least 5 times faster.

There are duplicate passport control facilities in arrivals, plus all the space currently taken up by kiosks. The baggage hall seems massive. I'm sure some smart boffin could make some tweaks to add in more e-gates within the existing footprint.

The ones in departures seem to cope fine even in peak times, the bottle neck is security but even then it's comparable to most global airports.

Totally agree - just use the same type of device that is used for the outbound clearance; slide the passport in, and it can ask the two questions before letting you through for the biometric validation.

I've used the A/NZ families lane (as I've been travelling with a young child) on all of my INT arrivals since covid, and each time it has easily been the fastest way through, and at various times of the day. It's embarrassing - at best - for SYD, that manual processing is faster than the e-gates.

If nothing else, I hope the fanfare of new technology for WSI might at least prompt SYD to look at some changes.

Cheers,
Matt.

 

[stm1sydney]

We should've gotten rid of paper arrival cards during covid.

Best time to test and implement new arrivals system.

Exactly. Now we have the paper card plus another paper slip from the machines, for which we have to queue up, then then queue up again to get through the gate, then queue up again to get through customs.

I avoid like the plague any flight arriving at SYDi before 8:30am.

 

[elanshin]

Totally agree - just use the same type of device that is used for the outbound clearance; slide the passport in, and it can ask the two questions before letting you through for the biometric validation.

I've used the A/NZ families lane (as I've been travelling with a young child) on all of my INT arrivals since covid, and each time it has easily been the fastest way through, and at various times of the day. It's embarrassing - at best - for SYD, that manual processing is faster than the e-gates.

It's only faster because the bulk of the people use the e-gates. When the e-gates was ANZ passport holders only it was never busy. But now a good chunk of arrival passengers can all use the e-gates.

 

[dairyfloss]

It's only faster because the bulk of the people use the e-gates. When the e-gates was ANZ passport holders only it was never busy. But now a good chunk of arrival passengers can all use the e-gates.

Sure - but whatever the reason, it should never (or at least rarely) be quicker to go to the manual lane(s)

 

[justinbrett]

Totally agree - just use the same type of device that is used for the outbound clearance; slide the passport in, and it can ask the two questions before letting you through for the biometric validation.

I've used the A/NZ families lane (as I've been travelling with a young child) on all of my INT arrivals since covid, and each time it has easily been the fastest way through, and at various times of the day. It's embarrassing - at best - for SYD, that manual processing is faster than the e-gates.

If nothing else, I hope the fanfare of new technology for WSI might at least prompt SYD to look at some changes.

Cheers,
Matt.

The problem is the passport scanning, it really slows things down.

They now have the tech to do away with the passport and just use biometrics (eg SIN) so by the time SYD is ready to upgrade they can probably just do that.

 

[dajop]

The problem is the passport scanning, it really slows things down.

There are also some simple things in the programming, for example when you provide an answer "Have you been in Africa or South America in the last 6 days"? and select an answer, you then have to select the continue button in the bottom right hand corner, which takes a second or so for someone familiar, but those not might stand there for 10 seconds or more before working it out. It could just automatically advance to next screen. Presumably that's there to allow error correction?

 

[tdimdad]

I thought we were doing that, but it seems to have been quietly shelved.
Even with the kiosk, you still need to fill out a paper form.
The problem is nothing to do with the layout of the terminal.

The program to redo the whole arrival procedure has been there for years. If I've understood correctly, the program failed miserably and is now attempting it again. I have no idea why the initial failure but two biggest contributors to problems are usually stakeholders and team competency. Given that technical competency is available (in general, presuming you pay a fair price), I'd ask about the stakeholders first - especially given this is done in a political environment and ministers are often the worst in messing up projects & programs.

As already alluded to, it'd be sensible to turn directly to online arrival cards. Why we'd need our convoluted paper-based process with four steps is a mystery (arrival card > ticket > e-gate > quarantine check where the card & ticket are returned back to the authorities present).

 

[Warragul]

I have no idea why the initial failure but two biggest contributors to problems are usually stakeholders and team competency.

Main vendor under (or not delivering) stuff and lining up all the ducks from other agencies were the main causes.

There was a much larger plan to replace/introduce a range of inter agency information transfer technology off the back of this project - some not traveller related, this tech flopped. The electronic declaration was just one and the initial piece in a bigger maze.