Solar Panels

[jb747]

According to installer, no issues with grid to install and grid connect a 15kW or higher array.

That's the limit with a 3 phase system. I don't think you'll find anyone allowing over 5 kw per phase, even though it was done in the past.

 

[Quickstatus]

Installer was saying that greater than 5kW /phase is allowed assuming that predicted pre export consumption brings export to no more than 5kW/phase.

Exporting 5kW/phase suggests an enormously oversized array

 

[jb747]

If any members use PV Output to map their generation figures, I have started an Australian Frequent Flyer team.

I've added mine....

 

[NM]

Received our first bill from Origin where the complete billing cycle was after the solar system installation. A combination of reed-in tariff and reduced consumption due to better monitoring of usage resulted in a small credit balancing owing to us (just under $10).

Consumption same period last year was 28.78kWh/day
Consumption this period was 19.47kWh/day (reduced mostly through improved monitoring and awareness)
Energy purchased this period was 7.71kWh/day
Feed-in to grid this period was 19.89kWh/day

Pretty happy with that. Now to see how we fare as the weather heats up and the air-con takes a beating, the pool pumps/chlorinator run harder/longer, and more hours of generation each day compete to realign the bill.

 

[Quickstatus]

How much does your solar panels cost on an quarterly amortised basis?. Because while SP is most often financed as a upfront capital cost, the only way to really know if you have made real savings is to amortise the capital cost such that it appears as a quarterly cost added on to the electric bill

For this you will need interest rate and nominal lifespan of solar panels

 

[Deleted member 29185]

For this you will need interest rate and nominal lifespan of solar panels

I'm not a mathematician (in fact I hate maths) but why do I need to do that? I received the full amount of my array cost back in under 4 years PLUS paid no electricity bill in that time, so isn't the capital amortised over only 4 years (probably less)? I also expect no electriciay bill into the future and a very healthy cheque back each quarter as well which I'm unsure how that impacts the amortised 4 year figure?

 

[NM]

How much does your solar panels cost on an quarterly amortised basis?. Because while SP is most often financed as a upfront capital cost, the only way to really know if you have made real savings is to amortise the capital cost such that it appears as a quarterly cost added on to the electric bill

For this you will need interest rate and nominal lifespan of solar panels

The only comparison that makes sense to me (as it is the only alternate option I would consider) is to compare amount of interest I would have saved on my mortgage if the capital cost of solar installation had been used to pay down my debt, against the difference in power bill costs. In my calculations, it will take me about 4 years to be ahead. I expect the panels to last the 25 years for which the product is warranted (product warranty, not performance warranty), and the inverter to last the 10 years for which it is warranted. So from years 5-25 I am well ahead.

When I chose to invest in solar panels and inverter, there were three options I considered. I had received a bonus payment from work and considered:

• Buying into Solar for my home
• Paying down the mortgage
• Renovations to the home

The previous year I chose the renovation option as there was some work that was getting desperate (rotted timber on rear steps/deck that was dangerous, floor tiles lifting etc.).

This year I decided to use the money for solar.

Next year I may finish the renovations (have some bath rooms that are getting desperate) or maybe just pay down debt. Not sure yet. At least now I can add the power cost savings to the amount available for next year's choice.

While an accountant may use a different method to determine spending criteria, I like to keep it simple. It works for my current situation. So far my power costs have dropped more than I expected. My initial calculations were based on a power cost reducaiton of around $2000 per year and so far it looks like I will significantly exceed that, bringing my break-even point closer.

Once I have a full 12 months of accurate usage data, I will run the numbers to see if battery storage will make financial sense yet. So far it does not look viable just yet, but as battery costs drop and as tariff options change, there will likely come a point where it does. I have the data now to be able to calculate how it will affect my costs on a daily basis, not just averages. I will be able to determine very accurately how my bill would be different if I had battery storage installed.

 

[Quickstatus]

@NM

What’s the cost of your instal, and quoted capacity.

I’m looking to put in panels myself. Pm if you like.

My roof is NE but most of consumption is after 3 pm

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I expect the panels to last the 25 years for which the product is warranted (product warranty, not performance warranty),

Is that a manufacturers warranty on the panels only or a Chubb style E&O insurance? If it's a manufacturers warranty, it's pretty game of them. I think Sunpower may offer that length of product warranty. I'd be curious, even though it's only my interest that's been piqued.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Is that a manufacturers warranty on the panels only or a Chubb style E&O insurance? If it's a manufacturers warranty, it's pretty game of them. I think Sunpower may offer that length of product warranty. I'd be curious, even though it's only my interest that's been piqued.

we have LG Neon 2 (330w) with a 25 year manufacturers performance warranty. Our inverters are SolarEdge SE5000H and they have a 12 year warranty.

 

[NM]

Is that a manufacturers warranty on the panels only or a Chubb style E&O insurance? If it's a manufacturers warranty, it's pretty game of them. I think Sunpower may offer that length of product warranty. I'd be curious, even though it's only my interest that's been piqued.

Manufacturer's warranty. At the time I purchased, SunPower were the only manufacturer offering 25 years product warranty. One of the reasons they can offer that is because they use different manufacturing techniques to others (solid copper base rather than aluminum used by most others). I have Sunpower E20-327 panels.

E-Series Solar Panels

At the time I purchased, the only other major player offering more than 10 years product warranty was LG (12 years) who have now increased their warranty to 25 years. LG was the only alternate panel I was considering and if the 25 year warranty was available at that time they may have been my choice. LG was going to be a little cheaper, but I was willing to pay a little more for the Sunpower product at the time.

I also chose to use the only Clean Energy Council Approved Solar Retailer in area for the installation. A very reputable company that has been installing solar solutions for over 10 years, so not a fly-by-night company and one I trust to support the installation as required. So definitely not the cheapest installation, but I believe it is a premium product done right and for that I was willing to a premium price.

 

[NM]

we have LG Neon 2 (330w) with a 25 year manufacturers performance warranty. Our inverters are SolarEdge SE5000H and they have a 12 year warranty.

Both very good products based on my research at the time of making my decision. My array all faces the only direction with no shading, so the technical benefits of SolarEdge were not going to be of much benefit to my specific installation. But if you have variable shading or multiple aspects, SolarEdge offers great benefits.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Both very good products based on my research at the time of making my decision. My array all faces the only direction with no shading, so the technical benefits of SolarEdge were not going to be of much benefit to my specific installation. But if you have variable shading or multiple aspects, SolarEdge offers great benefits.

That’s why we went with it - our roof is east west and very steep and we also live in a suburb with lots of big trees. It is amazing the impact they have especially in winter. We split our panels on either side of the roof and it is working well.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

we have LG Neon 2 (330w) with a 25 year manufacturers performance warranty. Our inverters are SolarEdge SE5000H and they have a 12 year warranty.

The 25 year performance warranty is pretty standard and also pretty useless IMHO. To claim against it, you'd most likely need a NATA accredited lab to test the panel against STC (Standard Test Conditions) as real world conditions would rarely equal STC's and even accurate historical data kept for the array would be difficult to apply to a single panel (not to mention that it could be argued that the real world data has changed due to climate change rather than panel degradation) and then hope that the Chinese (most likely) manufacturer responds to the claim. Despite the legalities for the AU agent (if they are still around) I'd be thinking they'd be reluctant to pay if the manufacturer refuses and given the price of new panels vrs NATA testing, it would just not be financially viable for the array owner unless it was a very big array with a lot of suspect panels.

 

[NM]

@NM

What’s the cost of your instal, and quoted capacity.

I’m looking to put in panels myself. Pm if you like.

My roof is NE but most of consumption is after 3 pm

Our total cost was impacted by some abnormal factors (moving some pool solar heating piping to make space for north-facing panels), so not a real comparison for others.

We have 20 x Sunpower E20-327 panels for a total nominal capacity of 6.54kW, and Fronius Primo inverter for 5.0kW inverter capacity.

Our roof faces 9 degrees east of north. On a clear day the ramp-up is quick and early, and the tail off commences early afternoon and tapers off more a little more slowly than the morning ramp-up. Takes approx. 3.5 hours from sunrise to max production, and production starts to drop below max about 3.75 hours before sunset. I considered splitting the array between north and west, but recommendation from installer was the north-facing aspect would give us best overall performance so long as we keep the pool systems (pumps, chlorinator) running during peak production times. Evening usage would be outside any real benefits of a west-facing part-array most of the year.

 

[Flying mermaid]

The 25 year performance warranty is pretty standard and also pretty useless IMHO. To claim against it, you'd most likely need a NATA accredited lab to test the panel against STC (Standard Test Conditions) as real world conditions would rarely equal STC's and even accurate historical data kept for the array would be difficult to apply to a single panel (not to mention that it could be argued that the real world data has changed due to climate change rather than panel degradation) and then hope that the Chinese (most likely) manufacturer responds to the claim. Despite the legalities for the AU agent (if they are still around) I'd be thinking they'd be reluctant to pay if the manufacturer refuses and given the price of new panels vrs NATA testing, it would just not be financially viable for the array owner unless it was a very big array with a lot of suspect panels.

given we would be lucky to be alive in 25 years (and definitely not living in the house by then), it wasn’t a huge issue. The next 10 years are probably more relevant to us. Once the fur babies die we plan to move on. I would hope the warranty rested with LG though, rather than the Chinese (probably) manufacturer?

We have 40 panels so really didn’t want to have a lot of dodgy ones, so wanted to go with good panels and the warranty would cover us for the early years. We have had the system nearly a year and it has performed really well.

 

[NM]

The 25 year performance warranty is pretty standard and also pretty useless IMHO. To claim against it, you'd most likely need a NATA accredited lab to test the panel against STC (Standard Test Conditions) as real world conditions would rarely equal STC's and even accurate historical data kept for the array would be difficult to apply to a single panel (not to mention that it could be argued that the real world data has changed due to climate change rather than panel degradation) and then hope that the Chinese (most likely) manufacturer responds to the claim. Despite the legalities for the AU agent (if they are still around) I'd be thinking they'd be reluctant to pay if the manufacturer refuses and given the price of new panels vrs NATA testing, it would just not be financially viable for the array owner unless it was a very big array with a lot of suspect panels.

LG now offers a 25 year product warranty as well as performance warranty. This changed recently and is likely in response to Sunpower's 25 year product warranty. I put LG into the category of long-term players and would expect them to honour their product warranty. And with the SolarEdge inverter, it is easier to identify if one panel is underperforming compared with others. But then again, I am hoping that I never have to make a claim on the product or performance warranty, but instead can rely on the warranty being an indication of the manufacturer's reputation and quality manufacturing process.

 

[Flying mermaid]

LG now offers a 25 year product warranty as well as performance warranty. This changed recently and is likely in response to Sunpower's 25 year product warranty. I put LG into the category of long-term players and would expect them to honour their product warranty. And with the SolarEdge inverter, it is easier to identify if one panel is underperforming compared with others. But then again, I am hoping that I never have to make a claim on the product or performance warranty, but instead can rely on the warranty being an indication of the manufacturer's reputation and quality manufacturing process.

we found the SolarEdge really good with isolating performance. We were concerned initially that one panel was not performing, as it seemed a lot less than the ones round it, However after watching shadowing from the trees and then having a look at the SolarEdge data we could actually see that particular one had more shadow on it for an hour or so in the morning than the others did.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I put LG into the category of long-term players and would expect them to honour their product warranty.

I didn't bother to attempt to work out good from bad. When I bought, there was so much disinformation/misinformation/supplier lies/ignorance, floating around that I simply decided to choose a Chinese brand with at least some history and few complaints. I searched and found the brand I chose (BLD Solar) had been around for about 5 years and had no issues that I could uncover so I went with them. I discounted warranties straight off (on the panels) as I reckoned warranties were not worth a great deal in the best of circumstances. The cost saving over the "name" brands and "highly recommended" brands was massive. 5 years down the track and the output is still great (some decrease due to some new shading of my own doing, but still better than I'd calculated from new) and I've had zero problems and the panels still look brand new (no issues that I can spot), so touch wood, I'm hoping they continue this trend. With 30kW worth of panels, I'd rather they not start failing, but to be honest, looking at the industry as a whole, warranty claims are very modest across most brands.

 

[Flying mermaid]

coming into the whole process quite late probably made it easier in some ways. The installer we used (Solarhub) was terrific and we really trusted their advice. When Actewagl came to sign off on the work they said Solarhub was one of two in town that they felt knew what they were doing, so we were lucky there.

Because of the various problems - very steep roof, sub optimal aspect etc we wanted really high performance panels and the LG Neon2 were the best at the time.