Solar Panels

[straitman]

We put a 3.1 Kw system in about 6 years ago.

Thus far we have generated approx 36,100 Kw with a payback of 66 c per Kw for anything we feed back. The system has more than paid for itself in the time we have had it.

Our only regret is that we should have put in a bigger system.

 

[amaroo]

Yes the Tesla/Panasonic joint venture in the US will be interesting. In Europe I was told they might have new technology inside 12 months for storage.

Companies like this motivate me to run, run, run away...

Tesla expects to become profitable in 2016, shares surge | Reuters

Samsung SDI shares plunge after single tweet from Tesla's Elon Musk

Tesla Model 3 Sales: Not Too Shabby | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

 

[a330j]

Interestingly Tesla's Li Ion batteries lose about 40% of capacity after 10 years. I will be looking at flow batteries when they become affordable which guarantee 100% output after 10 years.

https://www.zcell.com/

https://www.australiansolarquotes.com.au/2016/03/31/redflow-solar-power-battery/

 

[cove]

We will be right into battery storage when the payback is under 4 years. We did the 8 solar installations when the payback was approximately 3 years and I guess that was about 2 -3 years ago. I think the reason it worked so well for us at work is because we mostly work sunlight hours. Our next warehouse changes are likely to be LED warehouse lights that turn on when there is movement in the area and /or when the natural light is too dim during the work day. That change should make a big difference to our electricity use.

 

[docjames]

Dredging up an old thread rather than start a new one.

Is anyone an "expert" in solar systems?

Would like to install solar panels with grid feed-in. Want capacity to upgrade system to include hot water (currently system electric, but dont want to get rid of until it carks it / operates so horrendously inefficiently) and also a power bank (battery storage).

The advertising is basically a series of companies i've never heard of, and don't trust.


Can anyone advise current
- feed in rates?
- recommended companies (in Melb)?
- preferred systems?

and generally any other advice? Size of system?

TIA.

 

[leadman]

For new starters the feed-in rate is 11.5c/kwh under most agencies. I have 10kw installed in Melbourne, generally the max you are allowed to install if feeding to grid. I was told that some utilities limit it to 5 kw max. I've done a "true" calculation on pay-back not based on the sales hype and i'm looking at 6 years as i look at it as prepaying the electricity bills. I used Total Solar, i found them OK, but would not go overboard to recommend them as they seem to be like the rest of the pack. Others might have some better recommendations.

With hot water, i don't know as we have gas.

In regards to Tesla and the "wall" i work in the battery industry and there is still a long way to go before they get it right. The big sign is there is not the Chinese copies swamping the market as if they did work well and easy to make we would see massive copies. (Tesla is another story and just watch this space. i work near the factory in Reno and talking to the battery people helping Tesla, Panasonic, after hours over sake is eye opening)

 

[whatmeworry]

Dredging up an old thread rather than start a new one.

Is anyone an "expert" in solar systems?

Would like to install solar panels with grid feed-in. Want capacity to upgrade system to include hot water (currently system electric, but dont want to get rid of until it carks it / operates so horrendously inefficiently) and also a power bank (battery storage).

The advertising is basically a series of companies i've never heard of, and don't trust.


Can anyone advise current
- feed in rates?
- recommended companies (in Melb)?
- preferred systems?

and generally any other advice? Size of system?

TIA.

Try the Whirpool forum. However they don't really have an active solar thread for Vic/MEL like the other states.

 

[samh004]

Wouldn't have bothered installing without the very generous FIT

Being a relative newcomer to solar (last few months) my goal was to get a system I could pay off in the medium term and save me some coin at the same time. I have achieved that with a 3.08kW system (small roof) that has so far managed to pull in just over 20kWh's on its best day. The FIT is small, although recently rose, but I realise power companies exist to provide power, not to pay me, so my goal was never to get paid every year.

My biggest issue is working out how to best use the generation during the day and minimise the import of grid energy at night. This is leading mw down the path of getting a hot water system bypass that funnels excess solar power during the day into heating water beyond the usual rate, with the hot water acting as a battery, so it doesn't draw power at night to re-heat water, as the hot water energy spikes late at night and early in the morning are visible!

I realise an actual battery for me will be a long way off, and perhaps will come with my next system instead, but if prices ever came down enough to justify one I hardly see the need for a decent FIT when you can store excess power to use through the night (and really the later afternoon-evening slot is probably the second biggest power suck).

 

[jb747]

As you've suggested, it's all a bit of a mine field, with some very dodgy companies out there. We've just installed a 6kw system and hunted around the local installers, and got recommendations (and the opposite) from all of our neighbours with systems.

Cheaper is just that. Even down to very poor installs in many cases. The power companies that are getting in on the act, aren't much better, using the cheapest installers and components they can find.

We used a local who was recommended. He was far from the cheapest...actually the most expensive. On the other hand the install was quick, extremely tidy, and basically painless. I added appreciably to the cost because I wanted to use micro inverters, which upped the cost of the job by about 25%.

You will almost certainly be limited to 5kw of power input..per phase. If you happen to have 3 phase that means 15kw..

We've just had the first bill since the install, and basically it has nuked the power bill. From the date of the install the overall cost has been slightly positive.

I'm currently thinking of upping the number of installed panels, to take it to about 8kw. My aim will be to maximise winter production...filling out the power production graph. It's probably marginally cost effective, but I like the idea of not getting a power bill..or at least a minimal one.

As for the 60 plus cent feed in tariffs that some get...they aren't being paid for by the government, but rather by every other power user.

 

[cove]

We have been doing both LED lighting and solar wherever we can. Smashing power bills becomes a passion. We are now using a pretty efficient Waterco heat pump during the day to heat our swimming pool during the sunlight hours and use a pool blanket to keep it at 27 degrees without it costing anything.

 

[leadman]

I agree with the comments, its a bit in a way paying your power bills up front, knowing your getting a good discount. And i like having a bit of control.
I'm in South Korea at the moment and the amount of installations is quite incredible. The roofs in the carpark at Chungwon station are all solar panels and the company i am visiting has 2,500 installed throughout the operation. My 40 seems so small in comparison.

And in regards to installers, the sparkie they sent was so good we got him to do our refit of the house.

 

[amaroo]

I realise an actual battery for me will be a long way off, and perhaps will come with my next system instead, but if prices ever came down enough to justify one I hardly see the need for a decent FIT when you can store excess power to use through the night (and really the later afternoon-evening slot is probably the second biggest power suck).

FIT were/are crazy, IMHO. I'm being paid 54.6c/kw, but I only have to pay 27.07c when drawing a kw from the grid .... it's even less with you take into account the 12% "pay your bill on time" discount. LOL, you get a discount when the only bill you receive is a credit! Crazy stuff!

 

[Quickstatus]

I have achieved that with a 3.08kW system (small roof) that has so far managed to pull in just over 20kWh's on its best day..

Normally in OZ the amount of generation is about 4 times nameplate capacity the 4 refer to peak solar hours and varies according to latitude and seasons. So your system infers that peak solar hours is maybe 7?. For s 3kw system daily electric production should be about 12Kwh

While solar panels generate electric anytime photons impinge on it , a bell curve is generated representing generation throughout the day. It is easier to convert that to the number of hours of solar panel exposure to peak sunlight when the sun is directly over the panel required to generate the same electricity.

 

[Quickstatus]

I wanted to use micro inverters, which upped the cost of the job by about 25%.

As for the 60 plus cent feed in tariffs that some get...they aren't being paid for by the government, but rather by every other power user.

What appealed to you about microinverter?. Have you got individual panel monitoring?. If a central inverted fails it is quite obvious. If one microinverter fails it’s impossible to know without panel monitoring. I like not having 600V DC running through the house.

Is your electric consumption in phase with solar electric production or did you have to move some consumption into peak solar generation period?

Yes the FIT is paid by every user, but the poor pays relatively the most because they often can’t afford solar installations.

In our household. Most of the cost of electricity is incurred when the sun doesn’t shine. We can shift some consumption to peak solar production but can only shift some off peak tariff and shoulder tariff. Most of our roof space is on heading 030 and 210...Effectively NE so the peak generation is earlier in the morning to earlier in afternoon. Our roof space which would capture afternoon sun is shaded by 2pm in summer. Most of our consumption starts after 4pm

There is possibility of a ground instal of solar panels as we have a bit of land. Easier to clean and maintain...

 

[samh004]

Normally in OZ the amount of generation is about 4 times nameplate capacity the 4 refer to peak solar hours and varies according to latitude and seasons. So your system infers that peak solar hours is maybe 7?. For s 3kw system daily electric production should be about 12Kwh

So I'm doing well, glad to hear. I guess summer will always be better than winter, so I should take that into account, but glad to be making power while the sun shines... just need to reduce the peaks and better utilise it.

 

[jb747]

What appealed to you about microinverter?. Have you got individual panel monitoring?. If a central inverted fails it is quite obvious. If one microinverter fails it’s impossible to know without panel monitoring.

The initial appeal was one of aesthetics. I simply didn't want any inverters hung on my house walls. But ultimately, the micro inverters give me much more flexibility. I already have the panels in 3 separate arrays. Two have minor shading in the mornings. The micros handle that well. They offer more flexibility for future upgrading, which is also likely. If we jump up to the 30 panels that we're considering, they'll probably be in 6 arrays.

And yes, I do have panel level monitoring.

Is your electric consumption in phase with solar electric production or did you have to move some consumption into peak solar generation period?

It's a new house, with good green credentials even without the solar. Dishwasher run was moved to the morning from the evening. Beyond that, loads like washing, etc, were already happening during daylight. A couple of items that were adding to the base load were retired.

 

[Quickstatus]

The initial appeal was one of aesthetics. I simply didn't want any inverters hung on my house walls. But ultimately, the micro inverters give me much more flexibility. I already have the panels in 3 separate arrays. Two have minor shading in the mornings. The micros handle that well. They offer more flexibility for future upgrading, which is also likely. If we jump up to the 30 panels that we're considering, they'll probably be in 6 arrays.

.

Does the manufacturer quote a MTTF for your microinverters?

 

[jb747]

Does the manufacturer quote a MTTF for your microinverters?

The do, and it's appreciably longer than my human MTBF. Whether it's even slightly real would be another story.

 

[Quickstatus]

Was the warranty period for the microinverter same as the PV panels?

Interesting reading about PV inverter reliability:
Any product that relies on electronics will usually fail because of the failure of the electronic component.
Airplanes probably the same?

LED lights often quoted to last 50000 hours but they fail earlier because of failure of the transformer.

The calculated reliability in years between high quality and poor quality microinverter units is around 12 years and is affected to some extent by heat. If you like reading academic papers.......:

 

[clazman]

Recently installed a 6.48KW system with a 5kw inverter (Canadian solar panels , Fronius Primo inverter and smart meter)

Normal power bill was in the range of $250-$450, and first full Solar bill was $120

Installed inverter in garage ready for batteries in a few years

What I have learned so far
- inverters in the garage probably not a good idea as they generate noise
- where possibly purchase electrical goods with timers, so you can program them to come on during the day (dishwashers, washing machines etc)