Some QFi flight timetables mostly slowed

[Melburnian1]

QFi has slowed some of its international flights in the last few days, but sped up a smaller number.

I am happy to be corrected but do not believe that most are due to changes in time zones.

QF129 from SYD to PVG used to depart at 1055 and arrive at 1830. It now departs SYD 20 minutes earlier but retains the same arrival time in PVG.

QF19 from SYD to MNL used to depart at 1255 and arrive at 1800. It now departs 15" later at 1310 but is due to arrive MNL at 1830, half an hour later, thereby adding 15 minutes to the northbound timetable. Admittedly this could be due to airport congestion in MNL as that airport now hosts more passengers than MEL, with the percentage of international travellers being far higher.

In the reverse direction, the overnight QF20 used to have timings of 1920 to 0625 into SYD but is now 2015 to 0730 - a net increase in running time of 10 minutes.

QF127 from SYD to HKG used to depart at 1125 and arrive at 1745, but now departs at 1045 and arrives at 1720. This is an increase of 15 minutes in the trip time.

QF130 and QF128 ex PVG and HKG are unaltered.

QF23 to BKK used to depart at 1005 and arrive at 1535. This has become 1045 - 40 minutes later - but a full hour later in scheduled arrival at 1635, meaning 20 minutes added to the times.

QF81 from SYD to SIN used to be 0955/1500 but is now 1025/1600, so in theory the trip takes another half an hour.

However, QF82 is five minutes faster with the 1930 to 0625 timings replaced by 2010 to 0710.

QF5 on the same northbound route used to be 1505 ex SYD with a 1955 SIN arrival. It is now 1610 to 2120, 20 minutes slower.

Coming back, QF6 is however 10 minutes faster as its previous 2220/0900 times have altered to 2325/0955 (+1 of course).

The flagship QF1 used to depart SYD at 1700 and arrive LHR at 0640 + 1, but since the UK had a time change to daylight saving over the weekend just gone the timings have altered to 1650/0645 + 1 - 45 minutes faster. However coming 'home', QF2 has altered from 2115 to 0640 + 2 to 2125 to 0610 + 2, or 20 minutes slower if my maths about the time change is correct.

Similarly QF9 from MEL to LHR was previously 1615/0510 + 1 but is now 1615/0540 + 1, a gain of half an hour given the weekend time change, but in the opposite direction QF10 was previously 2215/0735 + 2 but is now 2225/0625 + 2, 20 minutes faster.

QF29 from MEL to HKG used to be 1050/1715 but has become 1035/1710, a 10 minute addition to the timetable.

QF30 southbound ex HKG was 1930/0755 + 1 but is now 20130/0900 or five minutes extra.

QF35 from MEL to SIN was 1020 to 1505 but is now 1045 to 1600, a slowing of half an hour. Coming south, QF36 has been made faster by 10 minutes, from 1955 to 0630 + 1 to what is now 2105 to 0730 + 1. Yet the orange cancer's JQ8 timings southbound remain the same - 2000 to 0645 + 1, slower than QF although not identical equipment.

One reason may be the winds altering direction at this time of year. Claimed airport congestion may be another, although in the past year there has not been any noticeable number of additional flights operated out of SYD for instance. These QF times will change again with the end to Daylight Saving time in Victoria and NSW next weekend.

I never see any commentary from QF (or other airlines) about how some of its flights have been slowed. This is unlike surface travel operators who will widely publicise changes to timetables, and in the process cop much criticism from the community should the result be a longer timetabled trip. Remember how the then CityRail in NSW copped a bucketing when it slowed weekend suburban trains and had them stopped for two or three minutes at various Sydney stations to 'catch up time'? (CityRail is now called 'Sydney Trains').

If the changes are not due to climatic conditions or airport congestion, it is a great way for the struggling, heavily loss making QFi to falsely claim that its 'punctuality has improved' when all it has really done is added 10, 20 or 30 minutes to a stack of flights making it easier to depart late and arrive "on time" (given the definition of airline punctuality is only 'late' when a flight is 'more than 15 minutes late').

 

[Brettmcg]

Is there a point to this post? I'm struggling to see it.

 

[Melburnian1]

Yes - to inform potential travellers that under the new official timetables, they should prepare for a longer trip.

Given that airline timetables are often criticised for being padded, this may be more evidence of that airline scheduling trick.

It's also to let travellers know that boasts about 'punctuality' might usefully be taken with a grain or three of salt.

 

[Brettmcg]

Yes - to inform potential travellers that under the new official timetables, they should prepare for a longer trip.

It's also to let travellers know that boasts about 'punctuality' might usefully be taken with a grain or three of salt.

5-20 minutes either way is hardly even worth mentioning.

Not sure which "boasts" you're referring to, but as far as I'm aware QF only talk about domestic OTP.

 

[mannej]

Here he is again...

 

[Melburnian1]

mannej, it is not compulsory for you to read any threads on AFF. Some of the slower timings are half an hour.

 

[Mumfreqflyer]

Guess it's similar the flights to Bali being timetabled as taking 3 hours 45 mins when every time I have flown it's a 3 hour 20 min flight....

Oh and yep I fly jetstar so I am def a bogan or as we like to call us over here in the West CUBS - cashed up bogans!

:/

 

[Mumfreqflyer]

Yep this sums me pretty much up! And when not flying the orange cancer to Bali I'm sitting in business class in thongs on Qantas or CX with a 2yo and baby!

 

[RooFlyer]

Is there a point to this post? I'm struggling to see it.

+1 I'm thinking the same thing for one other one !

 

[RooFlyer]

QFi has slowed some of its international flights in the last few days, but sped up a smaller number.

I am happy to be corrected but do not believe that most are due to changes in time zones.

QF129 from SYD to PVG used to depart at 1055 and arrive at 1830. It now departs SYD 20 minutes earlier but retains the same arrival time in PVG.

QF19 from SYD to MNL used to depart at 1255 and arrive at 1800. It now departs 15" later at 1310 but is due to arrive MNL at 1830, half an hour later, thereby adding 15 minutes to the northbound timetable. Admittedly this could be due to airport congestion in MNL as that airport now hosts more passengers than MEL, with the percentage of international travellers being far higher.

In the reverse direction, the overnight QF20 used to have timings of 1920 to 0625 into SYD but is now 2015 to 0730 - a net increase in running time of 10 minutes.

QF127 from SYD to HKG used to depart at 1125 and arrive at 1745, but now departs at 1045 and arrives at 1720. This is an increase of 15 minutes in the trip time.

QF130 and QF128 ex PVG and HKG are unaltered.

QF23 to BKK used to depart at 1005 and arrive at 1535. This has become 1045 - 40 minutes later - but a full hour later in scheduled arrival at 1635, meaning 20 minutes added to the times.

QF81 from SYD to SIN used to be 0955/1500 but is now 1025/1600, so in theory the trip takes another half an hour.

However, QF82 is five minutes faster with the 1930 to 0625 timings replaced by 2010 to 0710.

QF5 on the same northbound route used to be 1505 ex SYD with a 1955 SIN arrival. It is now 1610 to 2120, 20 minutes slower.

Coming back, QF6 is however 10 minutes faster as its previous 2220/0900 times have altered to 2325/0955 (+1 of course).

The flagship QF1 used to depart SYD at 1700 and arrive LHR at 0640 + 1, but since the UK had a time change to daylight saving over the weekend just gone the timings have altered to 1650/0645 + 1 - 45 minutes faster. However coming 'home', QF2 has altered from 2115 to 0640 + 2 to 2125 to 0610 + 2, or 20 minutes slower if my maths about the time change is correct.

Similarly QF9 from MEL to LHR was previously 1615/0510 + 1 but is now 1615/0540 + 1, a gain of half an hour given the weekend time change, but in the opposite direction QF10 was previously 2215/0735 + 2 but is now 2225/0625 + 2, 20 minutes faster.

QF29 from MEL to HKG used to be 1050/1715 but has become 1035/1710, a 10 minute addition to the timetable.

QF30 southbound ex HKG was 1930/0755 + 1 but is now 20130/0900 or five minutes extra.

QF35 from MEL to SIN was 1020 to 1505 but is now 1045 to 1600, a slowing of half an hour. Coming south, QF36 has been made faster by 10 minutes, from 1955 to 0630 + 1 to what is now 2105 to 0730 + 1. Yet the orange cancer's JQ8 timings southbound remain the same - 2000 to 0645 + 1, slower than QF although not identical equipment.

One reason may be the winds altering direction at this time of year. Claimed airport congestion may be another, although in the past year there has not been any noticeable number of additional flights operated out of SYD for instance. These QF times will change again with the end to Daylight Saving time in Victoria and NSW next weekend.

I never see any commentary from QF (or other airlines) about how some of its flights have been slowed. This is unlike surface travel operators who will widely publicise changes to timetables, and in the process cop much criticism from the community should the result be a longer timetabled trip. Remember how the then CityRail in NSW copped a bucketing when it slowed weekend suburban trains and had them stopped for two or three minutes at various Sydney stations to 'catch up time'? (CityRail is now called 'Sydney Trains').

If the changes are not due to climatic conditions or airport congestion, it is a great way for the struggling, heavily loss making QFi to falsely claim that its 'punctuality has improved' when all it has really done is added 10, 20 or 30 minutes to a stack of flights making it easier to depart late and arrive "on time" (given the definition of airline punctuality is only 'late' when a flight is 'more than 15 minutes late').

Interesting and thorough analysis. Thanks.

I blame Climate Change.

 

[docjames]

Sorry whilst I don't need a running commentary on flight delays exclusive to QF (cough, sorry Melburnian1), in fact this "padding" is interesting in that they've chosen to pad so many schedules at once, and whether this is part of the aircraft adjustments to try and eek extra usage out of remaining aircraft, and in doing so give them some recovery time padding, or whether they're just adjusting to reality? Or gaming the flight data otp %s which QF love to win (domestically anyway).


There would need to be more data to do a decent comparison, such as block times for other airlines using same/similar aircraft on these routes (eg. What is EK's block time on DXB-LHR and DXB-SYD for example (with the A380), how does UA go with the 744s on SYD-lax block times etc....

 

[Melburnian1]

Fair comment docjames. Recovery time seems to be common with international airlines. Here is one very recent review of an Etihad flight where near the top the travel writer makes a similar point re timetable padding:

Flight test: Etihad business class

 

[samh004]

Interesting and thorough analysis. Thanks.

I blame Climate Change.

I thought it was interesting too, and certainly if a fan of conspiracy theories, it could be a way to get a better on-time figure

 

[Cheatah]

Thanks for this - will affect what fights I transfer to/from at BKK & LHR.

It still amazes me that some people make comments on threads which they see as having little value!

Why bother! Move on people! If I see a thread which I don't care for I move on and read something else !

 

[Brettmcg]

Thanks for this - will affect what fights I transfer to/from at BKK & LHR.

It still amazes me that some people make comments on threads which they see as having little value!

Why bother! Move on people! If I see a thread which I don't care for I move on and read something else !

With only three posts since 2007 you must think the entire forum is rubbish!

 

[RooFlyer]

Thanks for this - will affect what fights I transfer to/from at BKK & LHR.

It still amazes me that some people make comments on threads which they see as having little value!

Why bother! Move on people! If I see a thread which I don't care for I move on and read something else !

+1. Although it appears not to have been fully absorbed by some

 

[mannej]

Thanks for this - will affect what fights I transfer to/from at BKK & LHR.

It still amazes me that some people make comments on threads which they see as having little value!

Why bother! Move on people! If I see a thread which I don't care for I move on and read something else !

There is a pattern from the OP of quoting scheduling issues from one airline obsessively without providing any great comparison with other airlines.

You just have to see the delay thread (where is the VA delay thread?) to see the lack of any context provided.

 

[Melburnian1]

My initial post in this thread discussed changes to timetables - some instances where QF flights have been sped up but mostly where they've been slowed - not delays as such.

mannej, you are most welcome to commence a VA delays thread. I concentrate on QF because while things may be changing, clearly it's the airline that attracts the most interest from AFF members due to its domestic market share (and still 18 per cent or so international market share, though declining) and historical factors such as the loss of AN.

I commented on bad CZ delays ex SYD a day or two ago in the 'general discussion' section. There has been a further delay to the CZ morning flight today.

Those of you who work for airlines such as QF may be annoyed that someone who does not work for it or a competitor posts about delays, but it's a public service because AFF may attract those who want information on what is happening to their flight - and as we've all noted, at times the airline websites do not reflect how if one flight is late, another will be similarly badly delayed.

We all get plenty of spin from the QF (and other airline) publicists (and free flight seeking travel journalists who are especially seeking a nice little 'review' trip in J or where it exists F) but few if any reporters ever tell travellers about schedules being slowed, delay patterns and so on.

 

[N860CR]

Doesn't have a great deal to do with OTP as, while arrival times are tracked, OTP claims are based on pushback time.

It's got more to do with congestion at particular airports and the average sector time exceeding what was previously blocked. You'll note SYD-CBR-SYD increased from 50 to 55 mins about 6 months ago. Based on the same average data.

Realistically, people prefer to have an accurate estimated arrival time so they can plan onwards travel. If it shows up early every now and then, it's just a bonus.

Great to see somebody has so much passion that they'd look into it in such detail.

 

[harvyk]

Change in seasons changes the winds, equipment changes means the chosen aircraft flies faster or slower then the previous type, expecting more or less congestion around the departure / arrival airport, slight changes in departure times affecting any or all of the above reasons, or just plan and simple padding... Take your pick...

As for the criticism of padding, personally I'd rather be told the flight is 2 hours long and have it only take 1:45, than be told the flight is only 1:45 and have it take 2 hours (as standard)... One way means extra time up my sleeve, the other way means risking missing connections or meetings.