SYD/MEL - LHR (J): QF, EK, CX or SQ

[legroom]

Friends

There is a myriad of options getting us from Down Under to the Tower of London but I wish to straw poll you on the premium airlines only.

Some would disagree and would include MH etc....

I'm referring to paid tickets, not JASA / Flight Upgrade or AAdvantage or KF Saver ....

Why would you spend cold, hard cash on your preferred airline ?

? SCs (QF, CX, EK)

? F upgrade possibility

? Soft product

? Guaranteed aisle access (CX, EK, SQ)

? Private bar at your seat (EK)

? Dubai, HK vs SIN stopover

? Wish to support AJ

? Pricing

*****

Personally, I lean toward SQ with CX not far behind.

In the air, I have not been disappointed by SQ ... yet.

I don't like a DXB transit, nor EK's soft & hard products.

The 1-2-1 SQ J seating is quite nice, esp with the new seating hard product on the LHR route.

SCs are nice but when you're set for WP and won't make P1, it stops being a going concern.

CX, I haven't heard anything negative there either.

I tried to think of some reasons to support my fellow Aussies but I need some helpful pointers from my fellow AFFers.

The best reason I could think of in favour of QF is the calibre of its pilots.

Were I in need of some SCs, QF would be an automatic choice.

Deep down, I wish to support QFi !

Help me, if you can.

Ps: cannot digest the BA backward seating, so I'd give that a miss.

 

[opusman]

SCs are nice but when you're set for WP and won't make P1, it stops being a going concern.

All counts towards LTG!

 

[legroom]

All counts towards LTG!

Very true, but CX also earns SCs too.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

For the lounges (FCl in MEl-SYD and the HKG lounges of CX), SCs, and possibility of an OP-UP then CX probably wins slightly over QF?

 

[eastwest101]

I know its just a straw poll, but in my opinion if I were paying for J class flights out of my own pocket say MEL/SYD to LHR then a lot of your points about different products is worthy of consideration but I still maintain that price would the main consideration (if you were reasonably locked into dates).

The question I would ask is what would the folks here be prepared to pay for those different J class products? For example I searched Expedia on say 18th June SYD-LHR and LHR-SYD on 18th July for 1 stop options and got the following results for return J fares:

China Southern $4964, Finnair $6177 (two stop example via SIN and HEL), Thai $6730, Virgin Australia $6907, Cathay Pacific $7319, British Airways $7543, Virgin Atlantic $7555, Qantas $7572, Emirates $7572!, Malaysian Airlines $8010, Singapore $9016, Ethiad $9717, JAL $11275

So now do the maths and I know this is only one isolated example but would be interesting to see the price justification for the difference in some of those J class fares. Obviously YMMV depending on demand/time of year etc etc

Lounge access is a given if you are paying for J class fares. Obviously my examples exclude using points to upgrade or fly in the J cabin.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I know its just a straw poll, but in my opinion if I were paying for J class flights out of my own pocket say MEL/SYD to LHR then a lot of your points about different products is worthy of consideration but I still maintain that price would the main consideration (if you were reasonably locked into dates).

The question I would ask is what would the folks here be prepared to pay for those different J class products? For example I searched Expedia on say 18th June SYD-LHR and LHR-SYD on 18th July for 1 stop options and got the following results for return J fares:

China Southern $4964, Finnair $6177 (two stop example via SIN and HEL), Thai $6730, Virgin Australia $6907, Cathay Pacific $7319, British Airways $7543, Virgin Atlantic $7555, Qantas $7572, Emirates $7572!, Malaysian Airlines $8010, Singapore $9016, Ethiad $9717, JAL $11275

So now do the maths and I know this is only one isolated example but would be interesting to see the price justification for the difference in some of those J class fares. Obviously YMMV depending on demand/time of year etc etc

Lounge access is a given if you are paying for J class fares. Obviously my examples exclude using points to upgrade or fly in the J cabin.

If you were locked in to dates (or had flexibility a day either side) then none of the above would be 'worth' the money given a star alliance return to Europe is currently around AUD2800 all up through USDM (including a nominal $200 for fees and taxes, but would be slightly more for London).

To save $3500 upwards (excluding China Southern) for reasonable airlines, with maybe an extra couple hours built in if you truly want full flat beds (TG doesn't offer those on all routes), is significant. In fact you can fly First for half (or less) than many of the above.

If you were flying at least once a year then it makes sense to purchase the above mentioned ex Europe for (often) significantly cheaper fares.

 

[eastwest101]

If you were locked in to dates (or had flexibility a day either side) then none of the above would be 'worth' the money given a star alliance return to Europe is currently around AUD2800 all up through USDM (including a nominal $200 for fees and taxes, but would be slightly more for London).

To save $3500 upwards (excluding China Southern) for reasonable airlines, with maybe an extra couple hours built in if you truly want full flat beds (TG doesn't offer those on all routes), is significant. In fact you can fly First for half (or less) than many of the above.

If you were flying at least once a year then it makes sense to purchase the above mentioned ex Europe for (often) significantly cheaper fares.

Yeah I agree - none of those options looks particularly attractive and by playing around with dates you would be able to reduce those J fares quite a bit, and also compare First or even Premium Economy fares just as a reality check.

I agree that flat beds are important and purchasing fares ex Europe makes sense if you are doing it once a year.

I just thought it interesting that the "average" seemed to be about $7K AUD - so anything cheaper than that represents good value (or smart use of USDM in your example) and anything more than $7.5K seems like either poor value or you would be expecting a better than average to awesome product!

The example of the USDM is good but maybe not what the OP was really asking, but I agree you'd be crazy not to consider the $2800 USDM fare example you quoted - if it were available as its really good value. I mean we can play the game of getting to Europe for the lowest fare possible by quoting say one isolated example of a mistake fare flying Shenzen Airlines on SQ codeshare but having to position in Mongolia first and using an online voucher from the Expedia Vietnam site and transferreing West African Francs from Burkina Faso into Diners Club to get that voucher... but I think the OP was sort of after opinions on widely available commercial J class fares to LHR in particular - which also locks in the onerous UK taxes. These taxes alone make any other airport in the EU a viable competitor for the truly cost conscious.

 

[legroom]

It is correct I am after a commercial fare as it is an OPM* ticket.

As such, I am not bound to look for the best price but being an AFFer, I am after the best value.

That was why I excluded FASA, JASA, AAdvantage, KF Saver, USDM etc...

I got a $9,500 confirmed SQ F but the dates had (unfortunately) been changed and it is now 13K instead, prompting me to look for a better-value J fare.

QF is asking $9900 for the J ticket - essentially more than my original SQ F ticket.

And no, I am not interested in China Southern or the like even if its fare is the lowest. Safety and pilot skills are important factors to me at this stage.

Cheers





* OPM = other people's money

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It is correct I am after a commercial fare as it is an OPM* ticket.

As such, I am not bound to look for the best price but being an AFFer, I am after the best value.

That was why I excluded FASA, JASA, AAdvantage, KF Saver, USDM etc...

I got a $9,500 confirmed SQ F but the dates had (unfortunately) been changed and it is now 13K instead, prompting me to look for a better-value J fare.

QF is asking $9900 for the J ticket - essentially more than my original SQ F ticket.

And no, I am not interested in China Southern or the like even if its fare is the lowest. Safety and pilot skills are important factors to me at this stage.

Cheers





* OPM = other people's money

it's been almost 20 years since china southern has had a fatal accident, far longer than SQ. so on that basis sq would have to be ruled off you list.

however if you were to say that the on board service and ground service in the event of IRROPS were of major concern then I would wholeheartedly agree

 

[winfred]

CX ticks a lot of boxes: SC, F upgrade possible between HKG-LHR, aisle access, flat bed, good IFE, good lounge, flight frequency,....

 

[eastwest101]

I got a $9,500 confirmed SQ F but the dates had (unfortunately) been changed and it is now 13K instead, prompting me to look for a better-value J fare.

QF is asking $9900 for the J ticket - essentially more than my original SQ F ticket.

* OPM = other people's money

Well - those fares sound kind of expensive - I assume you are travelling in peak season or looking at flying tomorrow? If the OPM are the reason that the dates changed and you couldn't use your SQ F ticket (which I would assume is refundable) then I guess your search for best value J fare from SYD/MEL to LHR would depend on the prices of the day but SQ and CX should be worth a look.

You say that QF J on the dates you are looking at is around $9900, how much are the SQ and the CX J fares on the same dates?

 

[Melburnian1]

legroom, you say that some may consider other airlines. I'm one of those.

May I suggest PR? It currently has one of its six Boeing 773ERs on SYD - MNL - SYD 4x weekly, but this stops in February 2014 when it reverts to the much older A343 or occasionally A330. The first has at seat entertainment; the latter two types do not. MEL - MNL is an A330 or A343; BNE via DRW is a modern A321 but in February may revert to a slightly older A320.

Between MNL and LHR it is always a B773ER. The beds are angled but I find them very acceptable. Food is good whatever the aircraft.

You could relax on a lovely beach in the central Philippines for a day or three should you have time. Internal (domestic) airfares average A$100 - A$150 return depending on the destination, so are cheap by our standards. I found a J fare using the airline's website for US$4946 return including taxes which on the site is converted to A$ at what for us is a very poor exchange rate. A specialist travel agent will do better than the website.

 

[knasty]

If I cant get an award flight I will seriously consider MH cash + (1000 free) miles for my London trip in 2014. Price starts with a 3...

CX J is great but I wouldn't pay double.

 

[AusTraveller]

If I cant get an award flight I will seriously consider MH cash + (1000 free) miles for my London trip in 2014. Price starts with a 3...

CX J is great but I wouldn't pay double.

that sounds like great value. Economy seats are getting close to that during peak season......

 

[legroom]

Well - those fares sound kind of expensive - I assume you are travelling in peak season or looking at flying tomorrow? If the OPM are the reason that the dates changed and you couldn't use your SQ F ticket (which I would assume is refundable) then I guess your search for best value J fare from SYD/MEL to LHR would depend on the prices of the day but SQ and CX should be worth a look.

You say that QF J on the dates you are looking at is around $9900, how much are the SQ and the CX J fares on the same dates?

QF $9900

SQ $9900

CX $7300

In round numbers approx

Dates are fixed and are in April

As it is OPM, I am willing to give it to QF1 / 2 as it is the only airline I could potentially get a F upgrade.

If it were not OPM, probably CX wins.

Sorry, but PR won't appeal to me (angled bed etc...).

I hate changes but shxx_ happens and I just have to go with the flow.

The SQ F was a steal at $9500 !

If I cant get an award flight I will seriously consider MH cash + (1000 free) miles for my London trip in 2014. Price starts with a 3...

CX J is great but I wouldn't pay double.

I tend to agree there but with OPM, the equation changes !

 

[MEL_Traveller]

QF $9900



The SQ F was a steal at $9500 !

SQ a bit of a moot point though as you wouldn't fly them on safety grounds?

 

[BoyZeus]

I mean we can play the game of getting to Europe for the lowest fare possible by quoting say one isolated example of a mistake fare flying Shenzen Airlines on SQ codeshare but having to position in Mongolia first and using an online voucher from the Expedia Vietnam site and transferreing West African Francs from Burkina Faso into Diners Club to get that voucher...

Wetting myself laughing... We forget that some people are just not price sensitive.

 

[docjames]

QF $9900

SQ $9900

CX $7300

In round numbers

If it were not OPM, probably CX wins.


The SQ F was a steal at $9500 !



I tend to agree there but with OPM, the equation changes !

I'd personally go with CX at those prices, even with OPM.

How much was CX F?

 

[legroom]

I'd personally go with CX at those prices, even with OPM.

How much was CX F?

The CX website had a fit spitting out a figure of $27K for the F seat.

Lucky I was sitting down.

QF wins in the end because of the potential F upgrade and of course, the OPM.

SQ a bit of a moot point though as you wouldn't fly them on safety grounds?

I would love to keep that SQ F if the dates had not been changed at the last minute.

You may be right about the safety data but the fatal milk contamination, the hiding of bird-flu patients in ambulances during WHO inspection, the covering up of contaminated commercial blood products etc... does not exactly speak well about the QC processes.

It may not apply to their aviation industry but given its rapid expansion, I'd prefer not to take risks as I can (financially) afford to do so.

 

[eastwest101]

The CX website had a fit spitting out a figure of $27K for the F seat.

Lucky I was sitting down.

QF wins in the end because of the potential F upgrade and of course, the OPM.

Okay - in April I am starting to see numbers that sort of come close to yours but I would still take the CX and save the $2000 difference - even though it is OPM.

Actually - it really depends on your definition of OPM. If its a tax-dodging multinational with interests in tobacco, arms manufacturing, exploitation of Third world labour etc etc then I say go for the $27K F fare! If it were paid by an orphanage in a Thirld World country then the equation changes again. But if it were a normal business or institution paying the fare the I would be happy saving them the $1.5K or so an "putting up with" CX J class myself. The chance of a F upgrade maybe just isnt enough to entice me to QF because if you don't get it - you have just paid extra money to fly on QF's good but not outstanding J class procuct, similarly the SQ fare looks a little unjustifyable as well.

Is what you are seeing there the A380 tax? I would assume that CX would be A330/B777 to HGK then B777 to LHR whereas QF and SQ would be A380 all the way.