The future of flying pilotless

[Foreigner]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...pilots-make-mistakes-reliance-technology.html

Interesting take in this article which also refers to pilot errors and training issues.

 

[harvyk]

If we see pilotless planes, they may put them in under the guise of safety, but the reality is it's purely a cost cutting measure.

The technology is certainly there to have planes remotely controlled, with the pilot sitting on the ground. That said there is a range of questions which would need to be asked before you'd ever see me on such a commercial flight.

1. Where is the fail safe? What happens if there is a systems failure on board which would normally require a pilot to manually intervene?

2. What happens if the data link is interrupted? Bad weather and / or sun flares can play havoc with data comms, esp over long distances.

3. So far everything they have done still requires a pilot on the ground, what is to stop that pilot from making a human error?

4. As the article has already allured to, a hijacker wouldn't need to leave the comfort of their living room. I build secure systems for a living, I spend my life looking for angles to attack software with the intention of fixing that problem. I have yet to find a truly secure system with absolutely no attack vectors. Whilst I am sure that some of the best minds in the world would work on securing data transmissions between the ground and plane IT security is always a game of cat and mouse. A security expert will plug holes as fast as they find them, but all an attacker needs to do is find 1 weakness and despite all the best intentions of the security expert, the attacker has a way in. The best way of thinking about this is imagine a really big house with all the exterior doors and windows open. An IT security expert would be the person running around looking for open doors and windows, and who will close them when they find them, but the thief just needs to find 1 open window and no matter how many windows the security expert has closed, it's all for naught.

Right now, should a drone fail, it doesn't really matter from a preserving life point of view. Whilst a crash is expensive in terms that a drone is not cheap, there is no loss of life. Put 400 or so people up there and it becomes a whole different ball game.
For me, there is something comforting knowing that if something goes wrong, the person up front has an extremely vested self interest in resolving the problem, beyond just a reprimand or loss of job. It's an almost "we're all in this together" type feeling.

 

[UP4014]

I just prefer the idea of us hurtling towards the ground with a couple of pilots wrestling with the controls to save us all; not some computer has it's data link blocked or line of script missing a dot.

Hence the combination of Airbus and Air France to not appeal.

Matt

 

[moa999]

I think a decent rollout of driverless cars (I know Google has some test ones) or driverless trains (a number of examples around the world, with Sydney's NW Rail Link to be the first in AU) will come first.

 

[harvyk]

I think a decent rollout of driverless cars (I know Google has some test ones) or driverless trains (a number of examples around the world, with Sydney's NW Rail Link to be the first in AU) will come first.

Driver less trains are probably the most likely of the 3, (since they have already rolled out such systems on a small scale) since the number of variables a driverless train has to deal with is relatively small (defined track, all other trains on the system also controlled by same system, if there are drivered trains the system can be put in charge of signalling and control of junctions on tracks etc...),

Driver less cars on a large scale I still think are still many years off. I know that they have done some pretty exciting testing, but I do think that there are still issues that need to be sorted out (both technical and legal, for example if a pedestrian walks out in front of a driverless car and is hit, who is at fault? Right now it's the car driver, but in a driverless car...).

Pilotless planes on the other hand, well I can see a scenario where the co-pilot's position may be made redundant, with automation able to replace their role, and the pilot will potentially become a person who presses a few buttons to make the plane fly, I still see that there would be a person up front who will actually be able to take over the flying role should there be a problem, in much the same way an IT person is still required to keep IT infrastructure going if there is a problem...

 

[The Rok]

Rio Tinto already operate driverless trains into and out of Cape Lambert Port from various Pilbara mines.

 

[harvyk]

Rio Tinto already operate driverless trains into and out of Cape Lambert Port from various Pilbara mines.

You don't have to look very far to get a complete list of driverless trains

List of driverless trains - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Miami Metromover is probably the largest system I've traveled on, from memory with exception to a few security guards scattered around the place (who got very upset at a tourist taking photos from the train) the whole system was run without human contact...

 

[mono88]

I look forward to the day of not only pilotless planes and driverless trains but:
1. CEO-less and senior management -less large corporations
2. Politician-less Parliament House including a PM-less run country.
3. Teacher-less schools
4. Agent-less Travel Agencies
Etc etc.
There is no end of possibilities if we put our minds to it.

 

[NM]

Rio Tinto already operate driverless trains into and out of Cape Lambert Port from various Pilbara mines.

Driverless trains are a very different situation to pilotless aircraft. If a driverless train experiences unusual situation, it can be programmed to just apply the breaks and stop. Its a bit difficult to do that in an aircraft.

 

[TonyHancock]

Its a bit difficult to do that in an aircraft.

I suspect it is actually quite easy.......the result might not be ideal.

 

[Bofter]

I can assure people that in road network management the prospect of driverless cars on the general road network is being taken very seriously although not yet as inevitable. Hands off driving is seen as all but inevitable (with regulation changes as necessary) but not having a driver at all is not all that different technically.

 

[harvyk]

I can assure people that in road network management the prospect of driverless cars on the general road network is being taken very seriously although not yet as inevitable. Hands off driving is seen as all but inevitable (with regulation changes as necessary) but not having a driver at all is not all that different technically.

I'm sure there is planning around driverless cars, and people are working through the technical and legal challenges to make it happen.

Personally whilst I love driving esp along good roads, the idea that after a big night on the town I could simply hop into my car and tell it to take me home without needing to worry and the booze bus is very appealing. Likewise been able to have a sleep on long trips, especially ones which are late at night, is also very appealing.

As for pilot-less planes, I'm sure that they will one day happen, I however don't see it happening on any sort of large scale in the next few years, I'm still pretty sure that in 20 years time I will be boarding planes with at least 1 pilot up the front.