Those who hold multiple amex cards, how do you justify multiple sets of fees?

[random111]

I posted in another thread about using a personal card for large business expenditure

Based on discussion with amex, looks like I wont have enough credit to process the $200k+ in monthly expenses

I hold a personal platinum in my name, thinking about getting one for our business in my wife's name. Business annual fee would be tax deductible, at top marginal tax rate thats a $950 fee then theres the $1,450 in personal platinum fees as well.

Logic would be the separation of business and personal expenses and continuing to earn points on personal expenses + more flexible lounge access given we have 3 kids (feels redundant though if the intent is to rack up a heap of points to travel in bus case with family). Logic is also that the $950 net fee opens up the potential for 5.4m+ points, but most of which will go through a pay.com.au or similar and therefore will have significant fees in and of itself - something in order of $45k pre tax, maybe $30k post tax. Assuming 1c value per point, that value equation stacks.

Does it make more sense to hold airline aligned visa / mcard personally and a single platinum in the business?

Those that hold multiple - help me build the business case hahaha

 

[Doctore1003]

I really question if payment processors like pay.com.au are worth it today, given lack of reward seat availability and high points costs and taxes and fees on bookings when you can actually find a seat.

For ATO, I just use my NAB Qantas business card. It earns 0.66 points per $1 with zero fees. Everything else that earns full points goes on Amex.

 

[DC3]

Based on discussion with amex, looks like I wont have enough credit to process the $200k+ in monthly expenses

Is there anything that stops you frequently putting the Amex card into credit to cover the debits as they accrue?

 

[hossein_au]

Amex does not like accounts going into credit; they really don't like.

Reading other threads, I've got the impression that their financial license in Australia puts limits on them, and they don't want to lose their license.

 

[DC3]

Amex does not like accounts to go into credit; they really don't like. I think their financial license in Australia puts in limits in this regard, and they don't want to lose their license.

The US is certainly an issue. I can say that in Oz I have not experienced any problems. Not to say that it can’t happen of course.

 

[random111]

I really question if payment processors like pay.com.au are worth it today, given lack of reward seat availability and high points costs and taxes and fees on bookings when you can actually find a seat.

For ATO, I just use my NAB Qantas business card. It earns 0.66 points per $1 with zero fees. Everything else that earns full points goes on Amex.

Thanks
I'm also questioning the value

I'm assuming points availability is good and that I'll extracting a minimum of 1c value per point

If either assumption doesn't hold true the exercise will be an expensive mistake!

My trouble is my largest payments ($190k per month) only accept BPay or EFT, no credit option

So a Qantas bus card for ATO payments could help but would be limited to $100k annually...

 

[levelnine]

As with anything in this area, it's a pretty simple cost/benefit analysis.

As you say, the assumptions you make in that analysis are key.

When you say you are expecting a min value of 1c/pt, are you saying that pre- or post-conversion? Because the big problem with Amex Australia is their woeful conversion rates. Hard to justify a 1c/pt valuation of MR on SQ where it is a 1:3 conversion rate.

 

[SYD]

My QF Biz AMEX CC lets me set up “employee cards” (a bit like supps I guess). I’ve not really looked to closely since it’s just me but pondering if that helps? If it shares the same credit limit, then probably not much use.

But what I like about my card is the annual fee is only $160 (tax deductible) and 1:1 QFF pts per $ (uncapped). I do the reverse now of you earlier question, I throw everything I can on that Biz AMEX (including personal stuff) and use my personal VISA (also 1:1) for things that don’t take AMEX (including the occasional business expense). I coded both cards in my accounting software to track and reconcile the expenses for BAS etc.

I have another Gold AMEX CC that I’ve had for years. It was free via a Professional association, but like a lot of cards dropped to 0.7 : 1 earn. I only pay one AMEX reward fee across both cards.

 

[craven morehead]

Thanks
I'm also questioning the value

I'm assuming points availability is good and that I'll extracting a minimum of 1c value per point

If either assumption doesn't hold true the exercise will be an expensive mistake!

My trouble is my largest payments ($190k per month) only accept BPay or EFT, no credit option

So a Qantas bus card for ATO payments could help but would be limited to $100k annually...

Check out the Sniip App. You can pay any BPay bill and have your Amex linked to Sniip.

 

[random111]

As with anything in this area, it's a pretty simple cost/benefit analysis.

As you say, the assumptions you make in that analysis are key.

When you say you are expecting a min value of 1c/pt, are you saying that pre- or post-conversion? Because the big problem with Amex Australia is their woeful conversion rates. Hard to justify a 1c/pt valuation of MR on SQ where it is a 1:3 conversion rate.

From what I can see its a catch-22

SQ have poor conversion and not great points redemption values but might have the better availability?

But the simple maths I've been doing have been exercises like this:

using the singapore points calculator - Mel to Paris is 262,000 points return plus probably $300 AUD in fees...so 786,000 MR points

I'd never buy a business ticket for cash, so my true like for like spend is economy for the full trip at its cheapest (average ticket 6 months in advance is $1900 i.e. $1600 in net additional cash) or a mix of premium and economy (more like $3,000 net additional cash)

so $1,600 / 786,000 = 0.2 cents per point value for me at a worst case
$3,000 / 786,000 = 0.4 cents per point value for me at best case in this example

Obviously comparing to business it'll be much better value per point, and maybe the way to think about it is how much a point cost me vs a cash price for bus class tickets and then divide by the redemption...

 

[levelnine]

so $1,600 / 786,000 = 0.2 cents per point value for me at a worst case
$3,000 / 786,000 = 0.4 cents per point value for me at best case in this example

Here's the way I'd look at it.

You value MR at 0.4c/pt (786K is worth $3,000 at most to you).

That means your $200K/m spend = 5.4mil MR = $21,600

If you're paying at least $24,000 in fees to generate those points (at 1% surcharge), you are going backwards each year.

 

[random111]

Here's the way I'd look at it.

You value MR at 0.4c/pt (786K is worth $3,000 at most to you).

That means your $200K/m spend = 5.4mil MR = $21,600

If you're paying at least $24,000 in fees to generate those points (at 1% surcharge), you are going backwards each year.

Agreed
except I think I can get slightly better value than 0.04 cents per point, e.g. using gift cards or the amex cash its 0.05 cents per point

I'm hoping with a bit more effort and time investent i'd be able to realise 1 cent per point value

its a big assumption though

 

[random111]

Check out the Sniip App. You can pay any BPay bill and have your Amex linked to Sniip.

thanks
i thought pay.com.au was slightly cheaper for amex payments 2.1% vs. 2.145% inc GST