Tokyo Haneda slot - how will Virgin Operate it?

[jakeseven7]

If Cyrus are successful I think we'll see LAX and HND operating in 2021 (or when Govt's allow travel to those countries again).

Disagree - my bet is Japan will be mothballed for years until they have the right equipment, 777 is too much plane and A330's most likely heading to the dump under VA2 Bain or Cyrus.

 

[BNEFlyer]

Disagree - my bet is Japan will be mothballed for years until they have the right equipment, 777 is too much plane and A330's most likely heading to the dump under VA2 Bain or Cyrus.

Agree to disagree, VA will fly BNE-HND (if Cyrus are successful anyway).

 

[AIRwin]

Virgin shows interest in Japan flights

The first clue into plans for the relaunched carrier's international network point to Tokyo.

www.afr.com

 

[eastwest101]

Virgin shows interest in Japan flights

The first clue into plans for the relaunched carrier's international network point to Tokyo.

www.afr.com

I think the decision to get rid of the A332s is going to look very stupid in hindsight, what they actually needed to do was get rid of the leasing and finance for the A332s, and the leasing and finance for the leased B738's and the leasing and finace for the E190s F100s and the ATR fleet.

Whats the common theme here? Leasing and finance. Pre covid-19 many airlines made money flying A330s, B738s, E190s and ATRs both owned and leased - there is nothing wrong with these aircraft - the problem was the earlier decisions about the VA leasing and finance. They had all the opportunities in the world even before Covid-19 struck, pre pandemic, fuel was already cheap so no need to have shiny new efficient aircraft, money was cheap, low interest rates and even further back the higher AUD was a perfect time to buy aircraft.

Post pandemic - the first airline to realize that fuel is even cheaper, wages and staff costs are lower, monopoly airports will have to trim their sails and aircraft leases are cheaper and owning new and used aircraft are all cheaper will get the first mover advantage when travel returns.

 

[Obzerva]

I think the decision to get rid of the A332s is going to look very stupid in hindsight, what they actually needed to do was get rid of the leasing and finance for the A332s, and the leasing and finance for the leased B738's and the leasing and finace for the E190s F100s and the ATR fleet.

Whats the common theme here? Leasing and finance. Pre covid-19 many airlines made money flying A330s, B738s, E190s and ATRs both owned and leased - there is nothing wrong with these aircraft - the problem was the earlier decisions about the VA leasing and finance. They had all the opportunities in the world even before Covid-19 struck, pre pandemic, fuel was already cheap so no need to have shiny new efficient aircraft, money was cheap, low interest rates and even further back the higher AUD was a perfect time to buy aircraft.

Post pandemic - the first airline to realize that fuel is even cheaper, wages and staff costs are lower, monopoly airports will have to trim their sails and aircraft leases are cheaper and owning new and used aircraft are all cheaper will get the first mover advantage when travel returns.

The E190s were great from a passenger perspective, but from an airline cost perspective, I don't think the story is quite so rosy.
I'm pretty sure a couple of airlines have grumbled about the operating cost of the Embraer's.
It's possible they all paid too much for the shiny new aircraft.

I'd love nothing more for there to be an A220 / E190s opening up new routes and supplementing schedules in Aus, but I don't think we'll see it for a while.

I'm hoping Alliance can make a really good go at their fleet on order (especially if they're flying for VA!)

 

[HS-TQE]

I do recall that JetBlue had some trouble operating the E190s on a consistent basis, partially why they are slowly getting rid of the E190s for A220s.

 

[N860CR]

I suspect they had to do something or give the slot up. Probably not quite ready to pull the pin on it however the March deadline will be an issue (assuming the Japanese don’t extend it).

BNE-GUM-HND should be doable?

 

[dajop]

I suspect they had to do something or give the slot up. Probably not quite ready to pull the pin on it however the March deadline will be an issue (assuming the Japanese don’t extend it).

BNE-GUM-HND should be doable?

Maybe DRW-HND? The sector seems to be just under the range for the type of aircraft.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

If VA3/VA4 ever want to make it to HND/NRT, they would have to use the fuel efficient/more fuel economy B787.
Some seem very positive VA3 will do the flights, but I see it more that if they do flight to Japan, it would be ANA at the earliest.
A big IF, as mentioned above, and we all know, planes to buy are not cheap, and they didn't want to put their leased 777/332(edit: to add 332), not333 into mothball, but sold/returned to owners.
If they had any plans, the Japan flights by VA3/VA4 will be a long way off, unless they (VA3) continue talks with ANA, and let ANA carry the VA flight number for the time being.
I am playing around with prices of ANA from Aust to Japan, and to link to ports where ANA flies, they (ANA) list both QF and VA flights to link to SYD/PER.

 

[HS-TQE]

X-Posted from "Bain Capital Takes Control of Virgin Australia"

Indirectly mentions the possibility of wet-leasing from ANA (NH) to 'operate for VA'.

Virgin Australia CEO: twin-aisle jets off the agenda until late 2022

Virgin's international partners could be the key to US, Japan flights for the next few years.

www.executivetraveller.com

 

[Matt_01]

VA AU-JP will not happen within the next couple of years and IMO VAs proposal/entry to JP only stuffed up what would have been a better QF offering.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

X-Posted from "Bain Capital Takes Control of Virgin Australia"

Indirectly mentions the possibility of wet-leasing from ANA (NH) to 'operate for VA'.

Virgin Australia CEO: twin-aisle jets off the agenda until late 2022

Virgin's international partners could be the key to US, Japan flights for the next few years.

www.executivetraveller.com

Ooo, I didn't read that one from the other Aust travel forum, so without me knowing, I mention partners, rather than VA flying their own planes to HND/NRT.
Great minds work together...!!!
Anyway, enough of my waffly.
We just now have to wait and see what JH does with VA.

 

[pauly7]

I think the decision to get rid of the A332s is going to look very stupid in hindsight, what they actually needed to do was get rid of the leasing and finance for the A332s, and the leasing and finance for the leased B738's and the leasing and finace for the E190s F100s and the ATR fleet.

Whats the common theme here? Leasing and finance.

A common assumption but not quite correct... I can only comment on publicly available information with my own opinion and yes Virgins commercial agreements across the board were sloppy and poorly negotiated with lack of a coherent strategy to pull it all together - agree with that.

But that is only one part of the puzzle as to why they were ultimately unsuccessful.

Virgin was simply unable to drive the loads and premiums that a widebody international airline needed, on any route they tried and even struggled to fill them profitably on trans con routes. Even with more favourable commercial terms they quite possibly would have ended up in the same situation.

The real question which is then much more up for robust discussion and
view points is why they couldn’t fill the planes profitably in the first place
Now that’s an interesting one!

 

[Matt_01]

Out of curiosity what happened to the slot that was allocated to VA? As they have no aircraft to operate the flights can QF apply to get the VA slot reallocated, I think QF originally wanted both.

 

[jakeseven7]

Out of curiosity what happened to the slot that was allocated to VA? As they have no aircraft to operate the flights can QF apply to get the VA slot reallocated, I think QF originally wanted both.

Rex could hop there on their 737, they seem to be be chopping and changing their plans every 5 seconds

VA2 - no chance. Been overseas and have been incinerated multiple times.

 

[AIRwin]

Rex could hop there on their 737, they seem to be be chopping and changing their plans every 5 seconds

Or lease some former VA aircraft cheaply...

 

[GlennT]

About the Haneda slots, I read an interesting possibility on a blog today- ANA doing Adelaide Haneda. Not likely but interesting idea.

Australia-Japan Flights Set For Shakeout

Snagging landing slots at either Narita or Haneda Airports in Tokyo is notoriously hard. But yesterday Japan’s Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism was handing out slots at Haned…

oztraveller.com.au

Not so farfetched! ANA might have done their homework and discovered how many Japan-bound South Australian (not just Adelaide) passengers are forced to connect in MEL or SYD. Could also open up a new market.

 

[oz_mark]

Out of curiosity what happened to the slot that was allocated to VA? As they have no aircraft to operate the flights can QF apply to get the VA slot reallocated, I think QF originally wanted both.

At the last extension, both Qantas and Virgin had been given until 31 Mar to utilise their slot. Not sure what will happen, but my guess will that both will get a six month extension.

 

[Matt_01]

At the last extension, both Qantas and Virgin had been given until 31 Mar to utilise their slot. Not sure what will happen, but my guess will that both will get a six month extension.

I have been searching for flights to Japan in early 22, from the results it would appear that QF25/26 will be running as it was pre covid and QF61/62 will be using the slot at HND. QF79/80 which was originally slated for the HND slot seems to have dropped off the schedule for the time being.

 

[soorox]

I have been searching for flights to Japan in early 22, from the results it would appear that QF25/26 will be running as it was pre covid and QF61/62 will be using the slot at HND. QF79/80 which was originally slated for the HND slot seems to have dropped off the schedule for the time being.

I'm not sure what you are looking at, but MEL-HND is there in the schedules, might be MEL and BNE sharing the same slot.

But anything can still change, nothing is set in concrete, especially during these times.