Tokyo Haneda slot - how will Virgin Operate it?

[HS-TQE]

Too bad that Virgin Australia has very minimal if any assets left since the administration. Considering the previous owners has already mortgaged/encumbered the entire 'owned' Boeing fleet plus leased their Bowen Hills HQ during that era. (was originally owned under Virgin Blue)

Fortunately for Bain they were able to inform the banks that they will not be paying the mortgage on certain aircraft during the administration process and were able to offload the oldest 'owned' 738s and the 77Ws to their mortgagers/banks.

A bunch of VARA Fokkers, the sole 20+ year old legacy Skywest Airbus (has since been sold) and Velocity are their only unencumbered assets left.

 

[odysseus]

I know this forum is awash with armies of starry eyed Virgin Groupies but if ANY of them think Bain has made one cent since they took over, let's hear them.

The issue was you alleged "Bain must be close to tossing in the towel as it has been a sea of red ink since they signed on.".

The reason for the collapse was the pandemic. Bain bought following the collapse, during the pandemic. The pandemic isn't over.

So there is nothing surprising in that situation that would prompt them to "toss in the towel."

 

[AIRwin]

Heard from my friend that she has managed to book Business reward seats from BNE to Europe in June 2022 via Tokyo and at first I was worried she would have to change airports but she has confirmed that the outbound QF flight will be arriving at HND...

 

[GlennT]

About the Haneda slots, I read an interesting possibility on a blog today- ANA doing Adelaide Haneda. Not likely but interesting idea.

Australia-Japan Flights Set For Shakeout

Snagging landing slots at either Narita or Haneda Airports in Tokyo is notoriously hard. But yesterday Japan’s Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism was handing out slots at Haned…

oztraveller.com.au

This has been floating around for a little while now. There would be ample slots at ADL and the SA Government would welcome that new routing.

 

[jase05]

So it looks like QF are moving all flights to HND and are permanently closing the NRT QF lounge

 

[HS-TQE]

So it looks like QF are moving all flights to HND and are permanently closing the NRT QF lounge

QF are definitely gambling (and are currently odds-on) on VA giving up the HND slot by the end of 2022.
BNE/MEL to HND are timetabled as a split 3/4 schedule on QF.

 

[AFF Editor]

Here's an update on the current situation:

How Will Virgin Australia Launch Flights to Tokyo?

Virgin Australia still wants to launch flights to Tokyo's Haneda Airport. It would need to start flights by late March 2023 or risk losing its slot.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

According to an IASC submission in June, Virgin has firm commercial plans to launch flights to Tokyo next year. It may need to do so by late March 2023 or risk losing its Haneda slot.

 

[SydneySwan]

I do hope Virgin make it work. I already have a trip to japan booked for next year but wouldn't be averse to an additional visit in March / April. I am still working my way through my Virgin credit for my cancelled SYD-BNE-HND return in May 2020.

 

[Bundy Bear]

I am looking at a trip to Tokyo in early April so if the flight goes ahead, prefer not 737-800Max but would certainly consider the trip.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

I am looking at a trip to Tokyo in early April so if the flight goes ahead, prefer not 737-800Max but would certainly consider the trip.

Tongue in cheek... Maybe BNE - CGK - BKI - MNL - HND on the 737 in J, unless VAi leases a 787 or 350, how is it going to work?
With the 737, is it possible, if with all for fuel stops above (or crew rest change over), and also with 5th freedom flights in it, all with a VA flight number?/!
Or is there a 737XLR in production?

 

[Bagpuss]

I am looking at a trip to Tokyo in early April so if the flight goes ahead, prefer not 737-800Max but would certainly consider the trip.

Reading this : How Will Virgin Australia Launch Flights to Tokyo?

My thoughts are if they don't have the MAX, they will go via Guam and then make the switch when the MAX arrives.

They will probably code-share heavily with ANA and United to try an minimize any losses. International recovery stalls in August despite full aircraft

With a March launch I expect they would need to be selling tickets by the end of this year, so we should know pretty soon.

 

[Mattg]

Reading this : How Will Virgin Australia Launch Flights to Tokyo?

My thoughts are if they don't have the MAX, they will go via Guam and then make the switch when the MAX arrives.

They will probably code-share heavily with ANA and United to try an minimize any losses. International recovery stalls in August despite full aircraft

With a March launch I expect they would need to be selling tickets by the end of this year, so we should know pretty soon.

I think wet leasing an aircraft from another airline is a live possibility if they don't have the MAX in time.

 

[Bagpuss]

I think wet leasing an aircraft from another airline is a live possibility if they don't have the MAX in time.

It is a possibility. Though I think it's very slim.
It's ok for very short flights, but when it comes to international flights I think consumers expect the usual airline branding / service offering.

If they wet leased that would really be a medium / long term solution as they wont be getting B787 / A350 or anything similar anytime soon ( 2 - 5 years if ever)

 

[Mattg]

It is a possibility. Though I think it's very slim.
It's ok for very short flights, but when it comes to international flights I think consumers expect the usual airline branding / service offering.

If they wet leased that would really be a medium / long term solution as they wont be getting B787 / A350 or anything similar anytime soon ( 2 - 5 years if ever)

It's happening quite a bit around the world at the moment. E.g. Finnair is flying A350s on trans-Atlantic routes for Eurowings Discover, and Wamos Air will fly A330s on PER-AKL over summer on behalf of Air New Zealand. There are a few more examples here: Book One Airline, Fly Another: The World of Wet Leasing

With VA partnering with QR, Qatar could (for example) fly a DOH-BNE-HND-BNE-DOH rotation with the BNE-HND legs under a VA flight number.

Many years ago, VA actually used to fly a 777 on a SYD-AUH-KUL-AUH-SYD rotation with the AUH-KUL sectors done on behalf of Etihad.

 

[Bagpuss]

It's happening quite a bit around the world at the moment. E.g. Finnair is flying A350s on trans-Atlantic routes for Eurowings Discover, and Wamos Air will fly A330s on PER-AKL over summer on behalf of Air New Zealand. There are a few more examples here: Book One Airline, Fly Another: The World of Wet Leasing

With VA partnering with QR, Qatar could (for example) fly a DOH-BNE-HND-BNE-DOH rotation with the BNE-HND legs under a VA flight number.

Many years ago, VA actually used to fly a 777 on a SYD-AUH-KUL-AUH-SYD rotation with the AUH-KUL sectors done on behalf of Etihad.

Yep all true, not denying that. However, I just dont think it as a long term solution the idea work too well.

The only long term solution from the above at the time was the VA 777 flying for Etihad.

Someone I know was affected by the Air NZ switch to Wamos and to stay they were unimpressed is the least, they still seem to mention their gripe daily.

Also air NZ used to fly a debranded SQ plane. Cant remember what type it was, pretty sure it also did AKL <> PER

 

[AIRwin]

Yep all true, not denying that. However, I just dont think it as a long term solution the idea work too well.

The only long term solution from the above at the time was the VA 777 flying for Etihad.

And QR is also short of aircraft?

 

[Bagpuss]

And QR is also short of aircraft?

Yep, with their A350's grounded.

Also probably worthy to note, the type of plane VA would need currently would be in high demand so they would need to potentially fork out the money.

A key benefit of flying their own B737 is less cost and easier to fill.

 

[bernardblack]

Yeah, QR doesn't seem like the obvious wet-lease candidate given their airframe shortage. I wouldn't think the ground time for the DOH-BNE-DOH rotation is sufficient to get it to and from HND.

It seems like NH is the obvious candidate. They would presumably have liked to have the slot themselves in the first place, and they were meant to be a forthcoming VA/Velocity partner. Does it need to be BNE at the Australia end? If NH had their druthers they might prefer MEL (after their 2x SYD rotations) and the MAX8 proposal out of CNS also isn't BNE, obviously (unless they sell a through-flight BNE-CNS-HND vv).

Post automatically merged: Oct 27, 2022

Someone I know was affected by the Air NZ switch to Wamos and to stay they were unimpressed is the least, they still seem to mention their gripe daily.

Isn't the Wamos wet-lease arguably an upgrade on this route? At least for J?

 

[HS-TQE]

Reading this : How Will Virgin Australia Launch Flights to Tokyo?

My thoughts are if they don't have the MAX, they will go via Guam and then make the switch when the MAX arrives.

They will probably code-share heavily with ANA and United to try an minimize any losses. International recovery stalls in August despite full aircraft

With a March launch I expect they would need to be selling tickets by the end of this year, so we should know pretty soon.

VA also has the option of Queensland Government's Attracting Aviation Investment Fund (AAIF), where the Queensland Taxpayers and the Airport in Question (assuming it's QAL for CNS) in the case of CNS-HND will partially subsidise the operating costs of the flight for a contracted period (typically anywhere between 12 - 24 months).

I did hear somewhere that IASC may let some wet-leasing permissions slide for VA, but for short-term precedent only (e.g Qantas and Ansett in the past has wet-leased from other carriers for international routes as a short term solution whenever their own aircraft goes tech) but granting VA a long-term wet lease specifically for the HND route is likely a no-no.

 

[BCons]

The prospect of a 9h trip, even in domestic 737 J, does not appeal.

Much prefer larger quieter A350 with ANA in either Y or J.

Those who have done a few VA flights in J from Mel/Syd to Per, or Mel/Syd to Akl, or even Mel/Syd to NAN will no doubt concur