Tokyo Haneda slot - how will Virgin Operate it?

[pangwen]

No doubt, but how is VA going to cover the cost of operating this flight with fares like that, and very low J fares (QF charge more for SYD-MEL); let alone make a profit. 3x weekly pretty much rules out any business pax.

The info on the previous page suggests this flight is daily, not 3x weekly. Unless you’re referring to the adl-cns connection mentioned in some posts?

And while their J fares might be lower than some QF J syd-Mel flights, it’s not a fair comparison to look at the cheapest J with VA on this route with an expensive (almost sold out) fare on qf. Looking at syd-mel, qf J can be had for $1524 (just searching early next year), which is still less than the $2300 for VA on this route quoted up-thread.

 

[jase05]

No doubt, but how is VA going to cover the cost of operating this flight with fares like that, and very low J fares (about the same as QF SYD-MEL); let alone make a profit. 3x weekly pretty much rules out any business pax.

Seems like they really want to cling on to these slots which is odd, as far as widebody routes go there's much better markets to make money on if you're only going to operate a few routes.

It was this kind of thinking that bankrupted the previous entity.

Isn’t it going to be a daily?
I don’t know what JQ’s loads were like pre pandemic on CNS-NRT but I’m guessing that VA would be hoping to cash in demand for Japan. Getting a lounge sorted out would make it much more appealing and Im guessing that once the partnership with NH is sorted out then passengers would have access to their lounge in HND.
I just hope they have gone over their figures and decided that they can make it work

 

[Sprucegoose]

Exactly. As was said up thread, they have no brand in Japan and I can't see a reasonable amount of the Australian market travelling on these aircraft, via this routing when there are simply better options out there. Unless it comes right down to price, I just can't see them making money on this one.

I can't disagree with your assessment - no frills but pitched well on costs.

A flying Aldi trolley!!

 

[justinbrett]

The info on the previous page suggests this flight is daily, not 3x weekly. Unless you’re referring to the adl-cns connection mentioned in some posts?

And while their J fares might be lower than some QF J syd-Mel flights, it’s not a fair comparison to look at the cheapest J with VA on this route with an expensive (almost sold out) fare on qf. Looking at syd-mel, qf J can be had for $1524 (just searching early next year), which is still less than the $2300 for VA on this route quoted up-thread.

I'd already tweaked the comment about the QF J fares after posting but your quote has the original. The sentiment is the same though, fares for a 1 hour J flight vs a 7 hour J flight are in the same ballpark.

Regarding only comparing the cheapest fares, the point was being made that loads won't be a problem because people will want the cheaper fares - well that only works whilst the fares at that range are available. Who's going to fly a 7 hour flight in a 737 for 1K+ if you can do the same on a widebody from a larger, closer city?

You'd think those 737s would make much more money on a TT route in higher rotation.

I don’t know what JQ’s loads were like pre pandemic on CNS-NRT but I’m guessing that VA would be hoping to cash in demand for Japan.

The difference is JQ operates lots of routes, this isn't the one medium/long haul route it chose to operate. It also has the ability to plug into the larger QF network and of course is partners with Jetstar Japan.

 

[jase05]

The difference is JQ operates lots of routes, this isn't the one medium/long haul route it chose to operate. It also has the ability to plug into the larger QF network and of course is partners with Jetstar Japan.

Oh, absolutely.
As I said, I hope VA has thought this through and perhaps they have bigger plans which haven’t been made known yet. Perhaps they have crunched the numbers and decided they can break even on the route as a placeholder until a better option comes along.
Going to be very interesting to see how it pans out and hopefully the NH partnership will shed some more light on their ambitions

 

[futurism]

I am trying to book this and cannot
There seem to be no HND to MEL flights at all loaded on their system, MEL to HND are loaded.
It is amusing that they are promoting something that is impossible to book, with all the press they are getting this morning about it.

edit: same applies for bookings direct from Cairns, no way of coming back exists in the booking engine

edit2: flights now seem to be appearing as I am checking month by month

 

[justinbrett]

Oh, absolutely.
As I said, I hope VA has thought this through and perhaps they have bigger plans which haven’t been made known yet. Perhaps they have crunched the numbers and decided they can break even on the route as a placeholder until a better option comes along.
Going to be very interesting to see how it pans out and hopefully the NH partnership will shed some more light on their ambitions

But I think we can agree they are choosing retention of the slots over profit.

My point was this is the kind of thinking that got them unstuck previously.

 

[ols]

$2300 return in J from SYD
Plenty of award availability too if that interests you

Only $91 charges with either Y or J awards one way

 

[AIRwin]

Hello Tokyo! Virgin Australia Launches First-Ever Cairns-Haneda Japan Service With Massive $699 Return Sale

newsroom.virginaustralia.com

 

[twinaisle]

I am trying to book this and cannot
There seem to be no HND to MEL flights at all loaded on their system, MEL to HND are loaded.
It is amusing that they are promoting something that is impossible to book, with all the press they are getting this morning about it.

edit: same applies for bookings direct from Cairns, no way of coming back exists in the booking engine

edit2: flights now seem to be appearing as I am checking month by month

 

[jase05]

I am trying to book this and cannot
There seem to be no HND to MEL flights at all loaded on their system, MEL to HND are loaded.
It is amusing that they are promoting something that is impossible to book, with all the press they are getting this morning about it.

edit: same applies for bookings direct from Cairns, no way of coming back exists in the booking engine

edit2: flights now seem to be appearing as I am checking month by month

If you do a return search on MEL-HND it works but for some reason it shows nothing on a HND-MEL one way. Bit of a pain but you should be able to book by phone

 

[Harrison_133]

Hello Tokyo! Virgin Australia Launches First-Ever Cairns-Haneda Japan Service With Massive $699 Return Sale

newsroom.virginaustralia.com

Some noteworthy points buried at the bottom this re the inflight service:

• Economy guests will enjoy our Buy Onboard Menu, with a selection of popular Australian and Japanese fresh and packaged food items available for purchase.
• Pillows, blankets and amenity kits will be available onboard for purchase. Amenity kits include an eye mask, ear plugs, drawstring bag and a pen.
• Our Business Class guests will also enjoy a complimentary pillow, blanket and amenity kit as well as toothbrush, toothpaste, socks and hand cream.
• All guests will enjoy complimentary tea, coffee, and water throughout the duration of the flight and a bottle of water upon boarding.

If you do a return search on MEL-HND it works but for some reason it shows nothing on a HND-MEL one way. Bit of a pain but you should be able to book by phone

From the official VA press release linked above by AIRwin, “Virgin Australia will be launching ticket sales from Japan to Australia in early 2023.”

The NH codeshare plus the widely expected Queensland Government AAIF funding

Spot on with the AAIF funding. Also reciprocal loyalty benefits in addition to the codeshare.

 

[jase05]

Also reciprocal loyalty benefits in addition to the codeshare.

Lounge access in HND is a decent start

 

[dajop]

Interesting … many seem to view this through the “imitate QF” paradigm whereas it very much aligns with the domestic strategy of “try to find a niche between full service and Jetstar”. (Or in this case directly compete with Jetstar). Also, this is nowhere near as expensive to operate as a wide body would, as no need to invest in and maintain a separate sub fleet of wide bodies.

But perhaps a different perspective, given Bain”s aims, does having slots at HND add value to the sale price of the airline? (I don’t know). As remember they are ultimately running VA to flip it, and perhaps they consider worthwhile investing in the route (as long as it doesn’t bleed too much cash) to pump up the company valuation.

 

[Oxy]

Putting aside the single isle equipment issues, the fare rules appear to be quite generous and open up some good SC options from all over Australia, with unlimited stopover options.

 

[p--and--t]

Email this morning, SALE PRICE Economy Choice return from $819 available from 28th June, book by 20 Dec 2022

 

[Digicola]

Odd that flights are only bookable originating from AU but not from JP

 

[encryptededdy]

Any idea what the SC earn is on this route?

 

[Ausbt]

As a keen Japow skier I'd be keen, even in Y, if it comes in at a bargain price. It's going to be a better option in Y than ANA or J* given I'll be lugging skis up there and looking for the additional allowance that status brings. Certainly back in the day I've taken a 737 up to DPS in Y. Would prefer row 3 of course

 

[Ktan89]

Just got this email.