Tokyo Haneda slot - how will Virgin Operate it?

[HS-TQE]

Probably if they didn't have the BNE/CNS airports or Qld govt's financial backing, they might not have started so fast, or (aim) to.

Slightly OT: QF's BNE-HND 3x weekly is also funded by the Queensland Government's AAIF and BAC.

The same Qld government funding also applies for UA's 3x weekly BNE-SFO after UA initially stated they weren't planning to enter BNE when they announced the VA partnership, which prompted Premier Annastacia to 'step in'.

Edit: looks like the other Virgin, ie, Virgin Atlantic has also stopped flying to HKG, so now can't use that as a stepping stone to the UK with the "Virgin Group" anymore, either.

VS is largely cutting back on Asia and is mainly moving more towards 'DL UK' with some flights to the Southern Continents (on the side) with Delta gaining operational control of that carrier despite DL's 50/50 ownership split with Richard B's Virgin Group.

 

[Digicola]

Slightly OT: QF's BNE-HND 3x weekly is also funded by the Queensland Government's AAIF and BAC.

The same Qld government funding also applies for UA's 3x weekly BNE-SFO after UA initially stated they weren't planning to enter BNE when they announced the VA partnership, which prompted Premier Annastacia to 'step in'.


VS is largely cutting back on Asia and is mainly moving more towards 'DL UK' with some flights to the Southern Continents (on the side) with Delta gaining operational control of that carrier despite DL's 50/50 ownership split with Richard B's Virgin Group.

With Russia polar overflight currently unavailable, Mainland China access still quasi impossible (although set to change now) and traffic to HK still subdued due to restrictions, axing HKG and PVG for now is the best way to allocate limited resources for VS.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

OffT: VS is joining the ST airline alliance of all things!OnT.

 

[Digicola]

With Japan travel picking up I really wonder QF will do. Theres only so much demand from places like KIX or CTS, they’ll probably have to relaunch NRT eventually.

I must say CNS was a surprise, the logistics of which can’t be too fun to deal with. A business has to always look for growth opportunities, thats what Jetstar did when they started looking at overseas expansion. Once the low hanging fruit in Oz and shorthaul international is picked I reckon widebody international is the only way for VA to expand. How many years down the line that is I’m not sure, the dust is still settling and there are still growth opportunities.

I’m just glad Bain bit the bullet and gave us something to chew on, I’m sure we’ll have 101 things to talk about once the flights actually launch and some of us sample it out.

 

[Vic]

It all depends.
Waffle(y) on:
People who work as cleaners would understand, or have done cleaning assignments (esp with more than one payer).
[snip]

Ok, this is where you've lost me, only cleaners understand balancing flight scheduling with work? I will have to agree to disagree.
BTW, I had a cleaning gig back in the day...

and ideally, gets me finished shop cleaning by 11am, change out of fluoro work shirt/clothes, and out to airport by 14.00/14.30/14.45, VAd plane/QFd plane to east coast, then to catch SQ flight to SIN, then HND.
ADL - SIN with SQ is only once a day, dep about 9.45am or so, most days.
2027 would give me an ideal long stint of time to spend in HND, if I did it, via SIN, would be in Tokyo wed mid evening, or if via east coast Au with SQ, reach HND at 17.00.
[snip]

And you can get on a "VAd plane" at 15:00 to cairns, and be in Tokyo "mid evening" the next day

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

If you clean with 2 or 3 different companies, time off can clash.
School clean, time off school holidays, except major periodics.
Shop clean, Easter or Christmas long weekend, or new years, every 6 years.
Shop clean, you appear, you get paid, or harder to get is annual leave, some payers make it harder to get this, due to lack of backup cleaners.
ABN cleaning you also have to find a replacer, so your ABN will still get paid.
House cleaners also depends on the goodwill of the payer.
Annual leave is a right, but it all depends on who can back you up, work wise.
For me, it's off to NZ tomorrow.
If only VA and AirNZ had kept their friendship.
VAd ADL - CNS direct is only 3 times per week tho.

 

[SnowMum]

Qantas flights out of Brisbane to Tokyo are overnight on the way out leaving at 10pm which I am afraid of with 2 young children...

Actually on rechecking recently that doesn't seem to be right, I think 10pm flights were other providers. I think I just preferred the earlier arrival time into Tokyo of JQ11 (6pm vs 8pm ) which helps with connections.

 

[Saab34]

I wonder what the $ value of the slot is worth? Some premium slots at airports around the world are worth millions.

 

[Vic]

If you clean with 2 or 3 different companies, time off can clash.
[snip]

Yes, that's how contracting works. It's the same for all contractors.

 

[dajop]

I wonder what the $ value of the slot is worth? Some premium slots at airports around the world are worth millions.

Whatever QF would be willing to pay for it? IIRC, this is not a freely tradable slot, but one specifically assigned to Australian carriers, and that if VA chose not to operate the slot it could pass to QF.

 

[SCM]

I feel like the real question moving forward is, what is going to be Virgin's strategy for widebodies?

 

[HS-TQE]

I feel like the real question moving forward is, what is going to be Virgin's strategy for widebodies?

I'm tipping their international strategy after VLI/APW and HND expansions won't be till after the partial IPO/Float from Bain in either late Q2 or Q3 of this year.

Any widebody plans (if any) will likely be after that partial float in Q2/Q3 with any future part owners, as Bain keeps to their (mostly) Boeing 737 focus as majority owner.

 

[SCM]

I'm tipping their international strategy after VLI/APW and HND expansions won't be till after the partial IPO/Float from Bain in either late Q2 or Q3 of this year.

Any widebody plans (if any) will likely be after that partial float in Q2/Q3 with any future part owners, as Bain keeps to their (mostly) Boeing 737 focus as majority owner.

I think that makes sense, and I would imagine they will be raising money in the IPO to buy the widebodies as well, but it will be so very long until they are delivered then. Which will they buy as well? Dreamliners perhaps? Nice and efficient, very easy to utilise on many routes.

Can they order them now and pay later? Is there an afterpay for airlines putting in deposits on aircraft

 

[BRIS_VA_HAWK]

I think that makes sense, and I would imagine they will be raising money in the IPO to buy the widebodies as well, but it will be so very long until they are delivered then. Which will they buy as well? Dreamliners perhaps? Nice and efficient, very easy to utilise on many routes.

Why buy when there is a glut of widebodies and leasing should be relatively cheap?

 

[SYD]

Why buy when there is a glut of widebodies and leasing should be relatively cheap?

Apart from the huge backlog in getting parked planes back in the air. But yes, you’d think they could get their hands on something quickly with that old desert smell rather than the new car smell.

 

[justinbrett]

Why buy when there is a glut of widebodies and leasing should be relatively cheap?

VA would need 787/A350 in order to complete on long haul routes to/from Australia. There isn't a glut on either of those types.

They're not even flying to Auckland or Christchurch, sort the regional network out first.

 

[BRIS_VA_HAWK]

Apart from the huge backlog in getting parked planes back in the air. But yes, you’d think they could get their hands on something quickly with that old desert smell rather than the new car smell.

You can buy the new car smell in a bottle if it's REALLY that important

VA would need 787/A350 in order to complete on long haul routes to/from Australia. There isn't a glut on either of those types.

They're not even flying to Auckland or Christchurch, sort the regional network out first.

AKL & CHC are already served by QF, JQ & NZ. Why enter a potential loser if you don't need to and/or there isn't the incentive to do so?
I'm still not convinced that VA2.0 would buy rather than lease though, but happy to be proven wrong if it means we get East Coast AUS to West Coast USA back on VA metal.

 

[HS-TQE]

Well as mentioned, the few opportunities for VA to increase their NZ flying is really leisure markets. Especially from other Australian leisure ports like OOL, MCY or CNS.

As previously mentioned BNE-DUD is one such leisure route and had financial support from Dunedin Council pre-COVID, and wouldn't surprise me if that particular route returns.

 

[Quickstatus]

787/A350

A330-200,will do just fine - I can see a number of late models on some websites.
Overall cost depends on various factors

 

[justinbrett]

AKL & CHC are already served by QF, JQ & NZ. Why enter a potential loser if you don't need to and/or there isn't the incentive to do so?

If VA can't compete with QF/JQ and NZ on trans tasman, how the hell are they going to compete with QF, AA, DL, UA, JQ, HA on Trans Pacific or the myriad of airlines flying to the UK or Asia?

The market is big enough for them TT, and the risk and cost to operate is much lower than long haul. You can't seriously be considered an international airline in Australia if you don't operate to at least AKL.