Tokyo Haneda slot - how will Virgin Operate it?

[AustraliaPoochie]

Seriously though, where where they divert to, on this route, if they needed to add more fuel.
I was on a flight, one time few years back, and VAd had to call into CBR, adding about 45 mins to an hour on an ADL - SYD flight.
The trip took longer as SYD airport had very bad rains that day, and the plane had to do quite a few "holding laps", and must have used a lot of fuel.
Then pilot/co comes onto PA and says, we have to divert to CBR to pick up more fuel.
I was to make another flight to NZ, but that was the next day, and the arr into CBR was about 8.30pm or so.
Unless there is an option for the max8 to carry extra fuel, esp for this long route, or have an aux fuel storage cell added/made, does the

 

[Quickstatus]

but JP8 is their normal fuel.

Understand but that was not the point of my fuel comment....which was that Avgas is not used by turbines .

Having said that I think the Abrams turbine can also run on Avgas maybe not as well as Jet fuel but a moving tank is better than a non moving tank.

Reminds of Marty Mcfly's flux capacitor car (the upgraded version) which can run on household scraps. If only the 737Max had one of those , it would easily make HND!

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

VA can/would make a bit of money too,, if it did a 5th freedom stop in MNL.
Aussies as far as I know, don't need a visa to enter PH, and they do have transit facs for sure.
Can pick up fuel too.
Yes, it would take time, and yes, more of a pain for those going CNS - HND, but with them not wanting to join an alliance, if they did stop in MNL, this would be a way for pax who want to get up there, ie, PH, (bypassing SIN, as that is also a side way trip), if VAi did CNS - MNL and wanted to earn VFF points and VFF SC, to get there.
Would be an apt opportunity, if I had a way of putting in suggestion.
4085 miles is the max fuel flight time, CNS - HND is 3626 miles, not rally a lot of buffer fuel at the near end of the flight.

 

[HS-TQE]

Considering the Queensland Government AAIF (Aviation Attraction Investment Fund) subsidy agreement was revised for CNS-HND and NH only recently adding their code to the VA CNS-HND flight for booking, going via MNL would be well out of the way (and there are the question of yields, MNL and the Philippines are usually lumped with most SE Asian countries, largely low yielding VFR).

VA's partner NH, JL and PR are already competing on the MNL-HND corridor.

 

[Saab34]

Manila would be better served via Jetstar and it’s A321N.

However we are entering a new era now with Vietjet and Cebu starting A321/330 opps so that segment might be covered soon.

 

[HS-TQE]

I would think QF group through JQ may start MNL from BNE (and of course flying the BNE-CNS leg as a Intl-Intl 'tag' with BNE-CNS only passengers picking up a 'D' sticker for that leg) based on the assumption the all-Y layout on the A321N won't make BNE-MNL non-stop at full MTOW.

Maybe BNE-CNS-MNL on JQ's 321N at x3 weekly minimum, perhaps?

 

[justinbrett]

MNL and the Philippines are usually lumped with most SE Asian countries, largely low yielding VFR).

I would think QF group through JQ may start MNL from BNE (and of course flying the BNE-CNS leg as a Intl-Intl 'tag' with BNE-CNS only passengers picking up a 'D' sticker for that leg) based on the assumption the all-Y layout on the A321N won't make BNE-MNL non-stop at full MTOW.

Maybe BNE-CNS-MNL on JQ's 321N at x3 weekly minimum, perhaps?

QF seems to be making the daily A330 work on SYD/MNL, with few J awards available so I assume they are selling J just fine too.

 

[SydneySwan]

QF seems to be making the daily A330 work on SYD/MNL, with few J awards available so I assume they are selling J just fine too.

Flew QF20 on Tuesday and J was completely full.

 

[dajop]

Seriously though, where where they divert to, on this route, if they needed to add more fuel.

GUM is almost on the great circle route, one potential location to divert to if there were issues.

If there's problems at the HND end you have NRT, NGO and KIX as diversion airports within striking distance. POM is probably a diversion airport at the end of the HND-CNS flight.

Whilst getting close to the range of the 737 Max 8, there are may routes that operate towards the limit of their type. PER-LHR, DFW-MEL, even LAX-MEL on a bad day are routes that get close the the range of the operating aircraft. And don't forget, even for short flights easily within range, the amount of fuel carried for many (most?) flights are often carefully calculated so as not to carry more fuel than is needed.

 

[justinbrett]

GUM is almost on the great circle route, one potential location to divert to if there were issues.

If there's problems at the HND end you have NRT, NGO and KIX as diversion airports within striking distance. POM is probably a diversion airport at the end of the HND-CNS flight.

IWO would be the first Japanese airport after Guam to divert to.

LAE (Lae Nadzab) would be the last PNG airport.

In addition to Guam you've also got YAP (Yap Micronesia), TKK (Chuuk Micronesia) and SPN (Saipan US - Northern Mariana Islands) - all of which 737 capable (and served by UA 737s).

You'd never be more than 90 minutes from a suitable airfield on this route.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Hopefully VAi has got plans in place, if anything like needing a fuel stop, were to arise.
Sorry for the threadjack about avgas.

 

[HS-TQE]

They'd have ETOPS 120 by default assumably on the 737-8 MAX.

Batik would have similar plans on their KUL-MEL non stop on the 737-8 MAX as well. Ditto for SQ's CNS-SIN which goes just over 7 hours.

 

[Vic]

Hopefully VAi has got plans in place, if anything like needing a fuel stop, were to arise.
Sorry for the threadjack about avgas.

Don't all airlines just fly off with no plans for diversion and refuelling for unusual situations?

 

[jpp42]

And don't forget, even for short flights easily within range, the amount of fuel carried for many (most?) flights are often carefully calculated so as not to carry more fuel than is needed.

Yep, for example I was on a flight on a B773 from Singapore to Sydney that had to divert to Melbourne after just one missed approach - they had no holding fuel planned as the thunderstorms at Sydney weren't forecast when departing Singapore. The 777-300ER obviously has range to cover a much longer distance - depending on configuration, up to 7,370 nm, while SIN-SYD is only 3,396 nm, nominal great circle distance. But that doesn't help if the fuel isn't loaded!

 

[BNEFlyer]

I would think QF group through JQ may start MNL from BNE (and of course flying the BNE-CNS leg as a Intl-Intl 'tag' with BNE-CNS only passengers picking up a 'D' sticker for that leg) based on the assumption the all-Y layout on the A321N won't make BNE-MNL non-stop at full MTOW.

Maybe BNE-CNS-MNL on JQ's 321N at x3 weekly minimum, perhaps?

The JQ A321XLR will be able to do BNE-MNL non-stop. The A321NEO falls short by about 125nm, so it could go non-stop with a few seats blocked.

 

[Saab34]

I am fairly sure PR fly MNL-BNE with a A321. I recall seeing one in Sydney also.

 

[HS-TQE]

I am fairly sure PR fly MNL-BNE with a A321. I recall seeing one in Sydney also.

PR flies the Standard A321neo with J flatbeds on the MNL-BNE year round and sometimes on MNL-SYD during quiet periods (mixed with the 3 class A330s (J/W/Y) that ply MNL-SYD)

 

[jakeseven7]

QF seems to be making the daily A330 work on SYD/MNL, with few J awards available so I assume they are selling J just fine too.

Tonnes of government on that flight.
Plus alot of AU businesses use that route.
I'd guess margins are pretty good on that flight.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Solo "Aust"/flag carrier on the Aust - PH route, of course QF will do it.

 

[dajop]

Tonnes of government on that flight.
Plus alot of AU businesses use that route.
I'd guess margins are pretty good on that flight.

Yeh and I’m betting the perception of both quality and safety on the route is favours QF as well (which could even flow through to corporate policies) not to mention loyalty programs, as Mahubay Miles doesn’t exactly have a plethora of international partners so isn’t very appealing for Australian originating traffic.