Tokyo Haneda slot - how will Virgin Operate it?

[MEL_Traveller]

People want cheaper fares and add ons according to their budget. There's Qantas and other full service airlines if people want to spend an additional $2.

I would like to meet ‘there people’!

The same ones who wanted ‘simpler and fairer’, who wanted the end of chauffeur drive, and wanted cafe breakfasts.

It all comes down to the question asked. I doubt too may people would say ‘no’ to a full meal for $2 extra on their fare! Phrase the question ‘would you like much cheaper fares if you didn’t have a meal?’ and the answers might be the reverse.

 

[dajop]

It all comes down to the question asked. I doubt too may people would say ‘no’ to a full meal for $2 extra on their fare! Phrase the question ‘would you like much cheaper fares if you didn’t have a meal?’ and the answers might be the reverse.

The reality is yield management will manage it to maximise earning on each flight. If they can take an extra $2 they will, without supplying a meal. That's the whole LCC or "value carrier" model. Qantas aren't charging an extra $2 for the meal, they're charging an extra $100 for a whole package, carefully crafted by marketing that includes that $2 meal.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The reality is yield management will manage it to maximise earning on each flight. If they can take an extra $2 they will, without supplying a meal. That's the whole LCC or "value carrier" model. Qantas aren't charging an extra $2 for the meal, they're charging an extra $100 for a whole package, carefully crafted by marketing that includes that $2 meal.

That’s right. Yield management is making the bundling appear to be a necessary requirement. But that’s based on the interests of the airline. Not the interests of the passenger.

VA and QF pre covid… same planes, same routes, same frequency, same Aussie crews… but one was highly profitable and the other wasn’t. If QF was $100 more for all the extras, VA could have charged $50 more. But they persisted with a model that wasn’t really getting results.

 

[antycbr]

VA and QF pre covid… same planes, same routes, same frequency, same Aussie crews… but one was highly profitable and the other wasn’t. If QF was $100 more for all the extras, VA could have charged $50 more. But they persisted with a model that wasn’t really getting results.

The issue with that $50 is how much of VAs mix would have moved to JQ or simply not travelled (ie discretionary leisure demand). QF has the dominant government and corporate travel account mix which isn’t as price sensitive (despite Best Fare of the Day policies)

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The issue with that $50 is how much of VAs mix would have moved to JQ or simply not travelled (ie discretionary leisure demand). QF has the dominant government and corporate travel account mix which isn’t as price sensitive (despite Best Fare of the Day policies)

Agree.

Hybrid models work, and can work well… JQi is a good example.

VA was charging more than JQ but went bankrupt. Their version of hybrid didn’t work because they couldn’t deliver the product people wanted.

The beauty of Rex is that bag, snack and drinks are included, for prices marginally above JQ. Beauty! VA charges more than Rex but offers less. Raw prawn!

At some point VA charging $50 more, or even $10 more to throw in a snack will have to reach a terminal point in terms of pax being able to move to JQ… JQ only has a finite number of seats.

 

[HS-TQE]

Agree.

Hybrid models work, and can work well… JQi is a good example.

VA was charging more than JQ but went bankrupt. Their version of hybrid didn’t work because they couldn’t deliver the product people wanted.

The beauty of Rex is that bag, snack and drinks are included, for prices marginally above JQ. Beauty! VA charges more than Rex but offers less. Raw prawn!

At some point VA charging $50 more, or even $10 more to throw in a snack will have to reach a terminal point in terms of pax being able to move to JQ… JQ only has a finite number of seats.

Although as posted previously, REX is without a FF program (and seems to have been deferred until further notice after the 2022 fizzle-out). A considerable amount of VA travellers would assumably have some sort of FF status to keep booking with them.

 

[MooTime]

Agree.

Hybrid models work, and can work well… JQi is a good example.

VA was charging more than JQ but went bankrupt. Their version of hybrid didn’t work because they couldn’t deliver the product people wanted.

The beauty of Rex is that bag, snack and drinks are included, for prices marginally above JQ. Beauty! VA charges more than Rex but offers less. Raw prawn!

VA wasn't hybrid pre-bankruptcy. They claimed and seemingly were full service carrier, operating to US, large planes etc.

I realise you know this, maybe posted few missing words...

Btw I never liked the piddly useless snacks on VA, what for, if I'm hungry I want more, if not hungry I'm just eating the sugar filled rubbish cos it's given to me.

Back on topic VA to Tokyo may work, but I'm leaning to a no long term. Many rather fly direct from capital cities, prefer larger flying metal and some like lounge access.

 

[HS-TQE]

Also considering VA's CNS-HND service is subsidised by the Queensland Government, the Airport and North Queensland Tourism for a few years under the AAIF fund suggests that inbound tourism will also be a focus. Outbound flyers (ie ex-Australia flyers) may likely be a lesser focus and largely compete with JQ for the budget/VFR/low yield.

I'm assuming largely tourism companies and tourism groups in Japan will be pre-booking seats to Japanese tourists to visit Cairns and the wider North Queensland region with some assistance from AAIF funds.

 

[dajop]

Back on topic VA to Tokyo may work, but I'm leaning to a no long term. Many rather fly direct from capital cities, prefer larger flying metal and some like lounge access.

It seems to me to be a placeholder service whilst they develop long term strategy around international and/or wait for new owners and see what the new owners want to do. With the aforementioned Queensland government support, and an assumed appeal to the inbound market, it might work in the short term. In the longer term, especially when the subsidy runs out, they may shift the service to a capital city or decide ultimately to relinquish the slot altogether. Seems to me this service is the lowest risk way of maintaining the slot.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

VA wasn't hybrid pre-bankruptcy. They claimed and seemingly were full service carrier, operating to US, large planes etc.

I realise you know this, maybe posted few missing words...

Btw I never liked the piddly useless snacks on VA, what for, if I'm hungry I want more, if not hungry I'm just eating the sugar filled rubbish cos it's given to me.

Back on topic VA to Tokyo may work, but I'm leaning to a no long term. Many rather fly direct from capital cities, prefer larger flying metal and some like lounge access.

Well… I guess that’s partly my point… I thought pre covid they offered no food on domestic economy! So they obviously failed on marketing there!

Snacks don’t have to be puddly or useless… they also pass the time. Rex does it pretty spot on i reckon! So does qantas, but there’s a premium there. VA really has little excuse for it’s poor offering. Several of my recent flights on VA have announced no tea or coffee due to short flying times, and all that’s available in the main cabin is water.

Plus, of course… buy on board. How can you serve BOB but not have time to out the kettle on?

 

[Harrison_133]

Snacks don’t have to be puddly or useless… they also pass the time. Rex does it pretty spot on i reckon!

To be honest, the snacks offered by Rex aren’t much different to what Virgin previously provided. Soy crisps, biscuit/cookie, a nut blend, the Rex catering isn’t anything special.

Several of my recent flights on VA have announced no tea or coffee due to short flying times, and all that’s available in the main cabin is water.

Flights under 55 minutes are considered ‘short’ and don’t serve tea or coffee, which in all fairness doesn’t encompass too many routes. MEL-CBR or MEL-LST come to mind.

 

[simmomelb]

Plus, of course… buy on board. How can you serve BOB but not have time to out the kettle on?

Offering tea, coffee and water, complimentary, will usually find the majority (80% +) of passengers taking it up, it's actually very time-consuming.
On short flights such as MEL to LST is very difficult to get that done, no matter how fast the crew try (they aren't avoiding it to save money, or annoy you, quite the contrary).
Sure you could get most pax a coffee, tea or water, but not all, and then you truly annoy those passengers that miss out, and if you are served your coffee near the end of service (cabin crew prepare for landing), you'd better get that down quickly or there could be a lot of spillages over yourself and the aircraft (to clean up by the crew & delaying the next flight out).
BoB usually only attracts roughly 10% of passengers (will vary depending on the length of the flight), so it's easy to get all these orders done on a short flight, provided you aren't also offering the above.
There is a genuine, well-thought-out reason for this, and it's not to inconvenience passengers

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Offering tea, coffee and water, complimentary, will usually find the majority (80% +) of passengers taking it up, it's actually very time-consuming.
On short flights such as MEL to LST is very difficult to get that done, no matter how fast the crew try (they aren't avoiding it to save money, or annoy you, quite the contrary).
Sure you could get most pax a coffee, tea or water, but not all, and then you truly annoy those passengers that miss out, and if you are served your coffee near the end of service (cabin crew prepare for landing), you'd better get that down quickly or there could be a lot of spillages over yourself and the aircraft (to clean up by the crew & delaying the next flight out).
BoB usually only attracts roughly 10% of passengers (will vary depending on the length of the flight), so it's easy to get all these orders done on a short flight, provided you aren't also offering the above.
There is a genuine, well-thought-out reason for this, and it's not to inconvenience passengers

To be honest, the snacks offered by Rex aren’t much different to what Virgin previously provided. Soy crisps, biscuit/cookie, a nut blend, the Rex catering isn’t anything special.

Flights under 55 minutes are considered ‘short’ and don’t serve tea or coffee, which in all fairness doesn’t encompass too many routes. MEL-CBR or MEL-LST come to mind.

I’m talking SYD-MEL and vv. Few bumps on takeoff meaning the seatbelt sign has been on maybe a minute or two longer than normal… followed by ‘sorry, short flight time, no hot drinks’.

Even on a regular service with a 1hr5 flying time the carts the initial service is over quite quickly, meaning they could do it, if they wanted.

So it does feel a bit like being able to provide service for money, but not for complimentary items.

Qantas doesn’t offer tea and coffee in the main cabin on the east coast trunks, but they ply you with a hot snack and plenty of wine.

Rex snacks might be small, but it gets around the penny pinching approach to service.

 

[MooTime]

I’m talking SYD-MEL and vv. Few bumps on takeoff meaning the seatbelt sign has been on maybe a minute or two longer than normal… followed by ‘sorry, short flight time, no hot drinks’.

Even on a regular service with a 1hr5 flying time the carts the initial service is over quite quickly, meaning they could do it, if they wanted.

So it does feel a bit like being able to provide service for money, but not for complimentary items.

Qantas doesn’t offer tea and coffee in the main cabin on the east coast trunks, but they ply you with a hot snack and plenty of wine.

Rex snacks might be small, but it gets around the penny pinching approach to service.

It's great that we have a varying degree of service & pricing points.

They're all Good Different.

 

[twinaisle]

I’m talking SYD-MEL and vv. Few bumps on takeoff meaning the seatbelt sign has been on maybe a minute or two longer than normal… followed by ‘sorry, short flight time, no hot drinks’.

Even on a regular service with a 1hr5 flying time the carts the initial service is over quite quickly, meaning they could do it, if they wanted.

So it does feel a bit like being able to provide service for money, but not for complimentary items.

Qantas doesn’t offer tea and coffee in the main cabin on the east coast trunks, but they ply you with a hot snack and plenty of wine.

Rex snacks might be small, but it gets around the penny pinching approach to service.

We try to offer hot drinks but sometimes being seated longer than usual means the service time is cut off especially when it's a full flight. We must stop service when we hear "prepare for landing"

Happened to me the other day - seated for well over 15 minutes and we had around 18 minutes to service the cabin before having to commence descent. Had to cut hot drinks so at least everyone had a water.

 

[N860CR]

I might as well get a Large Big mac meal with salad (with more leaves than the celebrity one) and a large diet coke for $13.00

A Big Mac meal is $13?!

 

[Saab34]

I got a large coke the other day was nearly $6 so I believe it.

 

[Quickstatus]

A Big Mac meal is $13?!

Yeah I had to check myself...

 

[jakeseven7]

Yeah I had to check myself...

People bring Maccas onboard VA2 flights out of BNE all the time 2 all beef Pattie’s…. Maybe they should just do an official partnership

 

[antycbr]

People bring Maccas onboard VA2 flights out of BNE all the time 2 all beef Pattie’s…. Maybe they should just do an official partnership

Err no - Bain would prefer Betty’s Burgers thanks.