Tokyo Haneda slot - how will Virgin Operate it?

[TheInsider]

I'm sure I know the answer to this but I thought I would ask, how is this crewed from a layover perspective? Just a single overnight, or two nights to allow for stepping up in the case of someone going off sick?

Highly likely would be like other carriers, about 26hrs, so overnight if it's a daily flight.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Highly likely would be like other carriers, about 26hrs, so overnight if it's a daily flight.

Yeah, I assumed so. I just wondered given the publicity and attention this will get as the first foray in to longer distance international whether someone decided from a corporate perspective it was worth having a more conservative crewing approach and just pay the costs (both financial and otherwise)

 

[twinaisle]

Highly likely would be like other carriers, about 26hrs, so overnight if it's a daily flight.

26 hours sounds rich it's around 22 hours give and take.

4 crew operation.

 

[TheInsider]

26 hours sounds rich it's around 22 hours give and take.

4 crew operation.

I'm talking more aircraft off/on time. Not the travel, boarding, checks etc.

But it seems standard compared to other carriers.

 

[Mattg]

4 crew operation.

Given the low number of passengers, could the flight legally depart with 3 flight attendants? (E.g. if one of them gets sick in Tokyo?)

 

[ANstar]

Given the low number of passengers, could the flight legally depart with 3 flight attendants? (E.g. if one of them gets sick in Tokyo?)

Yes I believe CASA has an exemption that they can go with 1 less crew member provided the pax loads dont exceed 1:50

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Are there any extra requirements for overwater flights? Like one crew member per door to assist with rafts?

I wouldn’t like to evacuate a 737 on water (even a runway overrun) with just three cabin crew.

I found out the other night that apparently VA have five cabin crew on some domestic flights… we had a tug malfunction, but with all doors armed and still at the gate there were four crew chatting in the forward galley. (allegedly one extra down the back)

 

[Quickstatus]

Source

1 CC per 36.
VA 737-800 carries 176 pax.
That is 4.88 CC for the aircraft assuming full

Nevertheless, the aircraft certification requires a certain number of CC to be on board - alluded to in (d)

The Va -700 has 128 seats. = ordinarily 3.5 CC for the aircraft




Regarding the 1:50 ratio..
As per @ANstar, this is an individually approved CASA exemption to the 1:36 rule

 

[Digicola]

Another day, another late departure. Hope OTP improves drastically once the MAXs are in…

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

OffT, the VA flight between OOL and DPS also does the Aust dom flight.
If the same plane that is used for CNS - HND also does other sectors, dom or to DPS via SYD/OOL, it can lead to problems.
Esp too with the SYD very late delays of late, with only one runway in op.
The flight was late over the past few days, but since the same plane also does the dom sectors, it all leads on to late dep for the ensuing flights.
According to my looks at www.flightaware.com (incoming flights), the flight went BNE - SYD - OOL - DPS - OOL - SYD - ADL, and it seems that they are all the same aircraft, VA83 and traceing.
If the same occurs for the CNS - HND flight, and that if VA uses the same 737-700 (for the time being), with other sectors, it can lead to very late dep and very late arr.OnT.

 

[Quickstatus]

If the same occurs for the CNS - HND flight

77 departs CNS at 1315hrs
78 arrives CNS at 0615hrs

Assuming a minimum 1hr preflight before any 737 flight means any DOM flight using these -700 will need to depart and arrive back between 0715 and 1215hrs = 5 hrs. 5:30 if 45 minutes turnaround is used
Potentially it could only do CNS-BNE and BNE-CNS which take about 2:20 each. That leaves only 50 minutes to turn it around in BNE.
Doable but very tight.
Maybe it could open a new route between CNS and TSV, ROK.

However as VA operates 5 flights a day between CNS and BNE, there would need to be some justification on the demand side. Why put more seats on an route when it can possibly just raise prices?

 

[Must...Fly!]

Probably won't be a problem until a sufficient number of MAXs arrive such that the aircraft could be rotated through CNS/HND on a daily basis in to the domestic network, like the B738s are to DPS.

Given what we know about the fuel burn I would think VBZ will be visiting HND as much as possible over the next month.

 

[Harrison_133]

If the same plane that is used for CNS - HND also does other sectors, dom or to DPS via SYD/OOL, it can lead to problems.

One 737-700 is dedicated to Cairns - Haneda. At the moment, VBZ is operating VA77 & VA78 only. No domestic sectors in between.

A domestic sector will only be mixed in when they’re swapping between VBY and VBZ. For example, a tail swap is scheduled for Monday, making use of existing flights. VBY will operate VA775 BNE-CNS arriving at 11:10am, before taking over VA77 to Haneda at 1:15pm. VBZ will operate the return sector to Brisbane (VA780). As usual, all subject to change.

 

[HS-TQE]

Probably won't be a problem until a sufficient number of MAXs arrive such that the aircraft could be rotated through CNS/HND on a daily basis in to the domestic network, like the B738s are to DPS.

Given what we know about the fuel burn I would think VBZ will be visiting HND as much as possible over the next month.

Looks like VBY is scheduled to take over for a bit next week though (per Flightaware/Radar) whilst VBZ heads back to domestic for a bit

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

In my mind, I had always thought that airlines "had" to keep their Aust int and dom flights ie planes separate.
Didn't know till I had a deep look at flight aware via their incoming flight facility, that airlines can put planes that were on Aust dom flights, also onto their int ops.

 

[Quickstatus]

In my mind, I had always thought that airlines "had" to keep their Aust int and dom flights ie planes separate.

Not really. But they are often separate entities for other reasons.

 

[twinaisle]

In my mind, I had always thought that airlines "had" to keep their Aust int and dom flights ie planes separate.
Didn't know till I had a deep look at flight aware via their incoming flight facility, that airlines can put planes that were on Aust dom flights, also onto their int ops.

Nope not really. QF do it all the time too.

The YI series aircrafts are the main International aircrafts which have rafts fitted and do domestic flying too. I tend to do tag flights i.e SYD - OOL - DPS or MEL - ADL - DPS and vice versa all on the same aircraft.

The I in YI rego means International

It's the same as the new max 8IA with I for international.

It means they're configured ready for international flying with rafts onboard.

 

[The-Aviator]

These loads and on-time stats are woeful. Whilst I imagine it might improve a little bit once the MAXs are available, surely it is performing worse than anyone at the airline anticipated?

Without urgently finding some widebodies or maybe doing some sort of Qantas / Finnair style wet lease I'm struggling to see how this route succeeds. ANA is now offering sub-$3k return in J from SYD reasonably regularly and one would think a points / status earn announcement with this partner is not far off. Why would I choose a completely inferior one-stop service in a 737 over a direct flight in lie-flat business for not much more?

Again I understand the constraints they had in needing to use the slot etc, but wow this is not a good look.

 

[Human]

I'm struggling to see how this route succeeds.

What strikes me is that Virgin seems to be only putting in a half-hearted effort to make this route succeed. They haven’t re-opened the Cairns lounge, they haven’t made an effort to improve connections to the southern states (one poster above wrote of the 6-hour layover before the flight to Melbourne)…

Either Virgin management are incompetent (and really I don’t think they are), or they know that this route is not going to last long. It has “stop-gap” written all over it.

 

[Saab34]

I really think they should have just admitted defeat and given the slot back. Even if they get widebodies, it’s still just one lonely old slot. Bit token and pointless.