Tokyo Haneda slot - how will Virgin Operate it?

[twinaisle]

Soon I’d expect. 8IB was last spotted on the flight line at Renton ahead of testing, and the first domestic flying line is still scheduled to begin on 11th September, BNE-CNS/PER rotations. Remains to be seen if the latest MAX issues cause a delay or not.

It will arrive in September and do a variety of flights.

 

[Saab34]

Looks like further delays on the MAX with ‘near term’ aircraft on the production line being impacted by this aft bulkhead problem. MH was due its first MAX this week, that has been delayed infinitely.

You would assume the VA machines are impacted.

 

[AIRwin]

delayed infinitely

Indefinitely?

 

[Must...Fly!]

Indefinitely?

To be fair to @Saab34 infinite was once a possibility with the MAX...

 

[Saab34]

Haha auto correct playing games again.

Well a clean sheet design and this thing delayed infinitely would probably be more favourable.

 

[ben95]

Is Virgin not interested in selling tickets on this route or just have terrible inventory and pricing management?
Looking at Dec Mel-Tokyo flights before Christmas and virgin wanted A$2500 round trip while Qantas is offering direct MEL-NRT and I even managed to get a multi-city returning from CTS via NRT (Japan domestic on GK tho) on QF for less than A$2000 and Qantas got 30k baggage allowance which is handy for my skis as well. Not a fan of Qantas but I think at the current pricing no thanks.

 

[clifford]

Is Virgin not interested in selling tickets on this route or just have terrible inventory and pricing management?
Looking at Dec Mel-Tokyo flights before Christmas and virgin wanted A$2500 round trip while Qantas is offering direct MEL-NRT and I even managed to get a multi-city returning from CTS via NRT (Japan domestic on GK tho) on QF for less than A$2000 and Qantas got 30k baggage allowance which is handy for my skis as well. Not a fan of Qantas but I think at the current pricing no thanks.

You might find that ANA is even cheaper.

 

[Harrison_133]

Is Virgin not interested in selling tickets on this route or just have terrible inventory and pricing management?

Looking at the fare availability, the Japan flights in December are getting quite full already which would explain the high prices and Flex only availability in Y.

Most days, J is sold out or has little availability. There are a few days where Y is sold out too, or is in single digits for seat availability. Other days, only the top couple of fare buckets remain.

Basically, the last few seats available for sale are always going to be expensive.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

VA plane doing this route is only a 737, so has limited seating, and limited fuel capacity.
Plus the number of crew too, ie, only 4 if its not the same pilots and FO doing the flight up, and then coming back down, or if the flight is carrying the pilot and FO of the return flight, or will they stay up there in HND for the overnight, before piloting the next days flight back down, if its not the same crew doing the flight up and down again.
ANA using the 787 has got a wider plane, so their capacity is even higher still, so their planes can carry more pax and also have the extra capacity for freight, which the VA 737 would be tight about.
If for some reason, they need to pick up extra fuel, it would have to be a country on the route, some say its unlikely the plane would need to make any stops, but what if.
Its hard, they want to be mid range, but the impression I get, is that its more a glorified JQ similar.
===
What else to say, even JQ is using their 787 on the CNS - NRT routing.

 

[Saab34]

I’d be mindful using this flight in peak periods, the chances of getting re accommodated on other airlines at a convenient time are slim.

 

[HS-TQE]

If for some reason, they need to pick up extra fuel, it would have to be a country on the route, some say its unlikely the plane would need to make any stops, but what if.
Its hard, they want to be mid range, but the impression I get, is that its more a glorified JQ similar.

GOL's Brasilia to Orlando is the world's longest 737-MAX 8 route as of current and they largely operate it without problems. Their config is all-Y split into Y+ (Extra Legroom) and standard Y.

GOL is a direct LCC like Jetstar and they operate 6-8 hour routes on 737-MAX 8s like VA does.

There's also "Value Carrier" Batik's former KUL to MEL service, which was the longest 737-8 MAX flight in the world before they ended that route in favour of KUL-PER-AKL.

 

[SydneyRob23]

I flew MEL>CNS>HND Economy X, and then return HND>CNS>MEL in business. Some observations from my experience:

MEL>CNS>HND (Economy X)

• My flight out of Melbourne was very early in order to make (6:30am departure). I am WP so had lounge access at Melbourne which was nice, but with a 3hr 20min connection, it felt very early to be starting my travel day. I ended up staying at the Park Royal the night before because the departure was so early.
• Even getting to the airport over an hour early, the 'International Connections' desk at T3 was insanely busy and slow moving. I was lucky that I could use the priority desk (far left) to be processed there because they had a check-in person who was trained to process international departures there. If they didn't have this person there, or if I was a Red member, I would have been concerned about missing my departure
• Connection at CNS Dom>Int was seamless. They checked my luggage straight through and I got my boarding pass for both flights at Melbourne
• CNS International is terrible. No lounges, 1 coffee shop-cough-bar and not much else except for a newsagents and 1 or 2 touristy shops. For a long connection it is woeful.
• 8IA definitely looks brand new inside. Still has that new plane smell. I was a bit apprehensive flying the MAX having sworn never to do so, but to be honest, it was fine.
• The first 1.5hrs of the flight were quite bumpy (flying up to PNG). It smoothed out after that.
• Economy X legroom (row 3) is absolutely massive, bigger than business. As others have mentioned, there is no bulkhead/divider.
• While they did meal service for the business class cabin, they were strict on sending any economy passengers who tried to use the front lavatory to the back or wait until the trolly in the aisle had returned to the back, but as the flight wore on you could see this was a losing fight. There is nothing to prevent people trying to move forward and from midway onwards you could tell the crew had pretty much given up - and I don't really blame them. VA really need to get a divider solution in place because it isn't realistic to expect the business class flight attendant to be policing the cabin divide for ecomony pax for the entire flight when they are trying to do other things. And it certainly felt like there were people who were waiting for the FA to be busy before trying to barge through (row 3 was great for observing this sort of stuff).
• Buy on Board was sufficient. I had some cheese and crackers and a glass of wine early in the flight but wanted something more substantial later in the flight that aligned more with a proper meal time.
• 2nd trolley service was WAAAAAAY too late and slow. They made an announcement about half way through the flight that 'the crew are restocking the trolley and a second service will commence in an hour'. This was obviously a total lie since we could see crew taking turns resting in the back row of economy and the announcement was made to shut people up using the call bell to request food. 1hr40min later the trolley service commenced (yes I timed it because I’d only had 1 packet of cheese and crackers to this point and I was starving). I ordered the ‘Japanese curry’. There was a massive delay between ordering this (remember I was row 3 so was among the first served in the service), and it wasn’t brought out until we were making our descent into HND so I had about 5-10min to wolf it down as the crew impatiently tried to do a rubbish collection. The ‘Japanese’ curry was a honey-soy-chicken curry which didn’t feel very Japanese at all. Massive fail and a let down for the end of the flight.

HND>CNS>MEL (Business)

• Flight is a late departure, which posed a problem for me since it was 30C+ and high humidity in Tokyo and I had to leave my hotel room at 10am. This meant by the time I checked into my flight I was a sweaty, exhausted mess. Since there is no lounge arrangement for VA passengers, even in business class, I paid for access to the Sky Lounge at T3 and then paid additional for shower access in their adjacent TIAT Lounge. VA reaaaally need to get something in place here, if only due to the late departure. The Sky Lounge was small and got crowded quickly after I got there, so arrive early if you intend on using this lounge.
• VA78 was fine. The business class crew were great and were more proactive at managing people trying to use the lavatory from the economy cabin. It probably helped that the return flight was much quieter than the outbound flight, and more people were just trying to sleep.
• I had the bento box for dinner (was delicious) and had the cheesy eggs for breakfast (was okay) and plenty of wine between. Slept on and off for a few hours. The recliner seat is comfortable but obviously a lie-flat bed would have been preferred. I couldn’t sleep well sitting up and it was probably the wine more than anything that helped put me down. I had slept terribly the night before so by the time we came into CNS I was beginning to feel quite exhausted and groggy (the wine would not have helped here either).
• My stopover at CNS was 4hrs20min. This was torture for me. There is no lounge access currently at domestic and it was an absolute zoo in the terminal. I ended up trying to rest by laying on the curvy lounges just after security but failed miserably due to the constant noise and chaos around me. By this point I hadn’t slept properly in over 24hrs.
• CNS>MEL was a bit delayed departing and the cabin manager serving business was an absolute dream. I refused food service because I felt quite deathly by the time we left because I was so utterly exhausted. She kept bringing me water and checking in on me which was lovely and you could see she felt bad she couldn’t really do anything to help my situation. I nodded off for maybe half an hour and woke feeling a little more human.

So there are my observations.
I guess there are a few things I would suggest VA do which would come as no surprise for people reading these forums:

TLDR:

• VA need to get international lounge access arrangements going on long international routes like this if they want to be taken seriously. Especially if they insist on itineraries with long stopovers if they aren’t going to adjust their domestic flights to connect better
• They also need to reopen the CNS domestic lounge because the terminal was absolute chaos on my long stopover back.
• They need to get a cabin divider installed between economy and business on the MAX asap
• They need to adjust their trolley service times in economy and ensure they give enough time for the 2nd service on outbound daytime flights since this should coincide with when more people might be expecting a dinner type meal.
• They need to get wide body aircraft on long routes like this. A lie-flat bed would have made the world of difference in how exhausted I was on my return leg if I could have actually slept lying down.

Hi Keil thanks so much for this, flying out of Sydney next week in Economy X. Did biosecurity in Cairns required you to dump all fruit veg etc upon arrival? Are there adequate water refill stations in Cairns post security for the Haneda leg, or did you pay $6 a bottle of water?

 

[twinaisle]

Hi Keil thanks so much for this, flying out of Sydney next week in Economy X. Did biosecurity in Cairns required you to dump all fruit veg etc upon arrival? Are there adequate water refill stations in Cairns post security for the Haneda leg, or did you pay $6 a bottle of water?

Queensland don't have domestic biosecurity like South/west Australia and Tasmania.

 

[justinbrett]

Queensland don't have domestic biosecurity like South/west Australia and Tasmania.

It might not be enforced, but there are some restrictions.

https://www.interstatequarantine.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Quarantine-Domestic-Travellers-guide-11.01.22_Web.pdf

 

[twinaisle]

It might not be enforced, but there are some restrictions.

https://www.interstatequarantine.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Quarantine-Domestic-Travellers-guide-11.01.22_Web.pdf

I guess until it gets enforced then an apple or pear would be ok.

 

[SydneyRob23]

It might not be enforced, but there are some restrictions.

https://www.interstatequarantine.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Quarantine-Domestic-Travellers-guide-11.01.22_Web.pdf

Thanks so much Justin really appreciate this- was surprised at the little restrictions given how much they grow, besides bananas!

 

[SydneyRob23]

Queensland don't have domestic biosecurity like South/west Australia and Tasmania.

Thanks so much Twinaisle, anticipating lack of food at CNS and VA in general thanks to Earlier post, and with two flights, so trying to be prepared! I’ll report back to this group about my SYD-CNS-HND experience thanks All

 

[SydneyRob23]

I flew SYD-CNS-HND
Economy X
Agree with Keil’s observations plus:
- virgin customer service was off the charts, incredibly polite, friendly and helpful staff from check in and on both flights. Everyone looked happy to be there happily chatting with passengers
- woke up the day before to two storm warnings in Tokyo and Sydney, flight runways changed three times in Sydney so the 8:10 departure became 9am
- husbands 3F seat didn’t recline, gaping hole where button was
- rope was up quite quickly to prevent access to business class toilet
- Landed at 12pm CNS for a 12:30 departure
- not sure if it’s being upgraded or it’s like that? The “gate” is a darkish tunnel, bit like a gymnasium with lights off, standing room only
- row 3 is huge, good to have charge port, entertainment system not working, no worries plenty of Stan and Netflix preloaded
- toilets not manned whatsoever staff happy to let everyone use front and back freely - not a full flight and everyone being respectful not to crowd business anyway
- purchased all our own food, so only took advantage of free water, tea and coffee which was offered about 3 times (water very regularly)
- landed 8pm like clockwork despite leaving a touch late at 1:35pm. Plane retired for night apparently staff will fly back in two days
- felt like very fast descent into HND, felt bit queasy myself but thats just me being a lightweight
Will be back in a month but we opted to take the evening flight from cairns back to Sydney on the Sunday to spend a day swimming in waterfalls rather than four hours in the airport
loved the CNS to HND leg, and well done to all virgin staff in these times !

 

[ozstamps]

Trying to book a ONE WAY flight in Business Class mid-April 2023.

Virgin website shows HND-CNS-SYD at $A1,200 p.p. - half the price of the HND-SYD direct and a stopover in CNS is no real biggie, despite no lounge. See capture attached.

No way can the HND-CNS-SYD be booked on Virgin website, or via agents, or via any travel agent at ¬$1,200 a person. Even via Expedia Japan. Tickets at $2,200 seem all that is bookable.

Any clues on HOW to book the one way at $1,200 or so? Someone here will know!

Type in HND into Virgin website and you get told it cannot be booked in Australia - see below.

 

[mel-world]

I would surmise you are looking for April '24 and you searched SYD-HND (as per the top line of your screenshot) and the return segment is priced at $1206 but only if you take the outbound sectors (as showing at $2310 on the screen-grab). So the total return fare would be $3516 - the HND-SYD cannot be booked alone at the price you are looking at.