Tokyo Haneda slot - how will Virgin Operate it?

[Himeno]

I don't know except I think 3 Y seats are blocked off for cabin crew.

UA has 2 738M8 flights almost as long as the CNS-HND flight (EWR and IAD to ANC). GOL has one slightly longer (MCO-BSB).
The GOL flight is 250 miles shorter then the reported max range of the aircraft.
They may not need to block seats.

 

[MooTime]

I feel sorry for anyone who has to fly on this.

Why?

Pax fly 'on this' every day.... That's a lotta ppl you have to feel sorry for.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Why?

Pax fly 'on this' every day.... That's a lotta ppl you have to feel sorry for.

I’ve done a 6hr20min flight on a packed 737. It really isn’t fun.

Limited overhead space. Blocked aisles when service carts are out. Nowhere to really stand when queuing for the WCs. Many reasons why they’re not fun.

If these are holiday routes, people prolly only fly it once, not frequently. But I bet if they had a choice in future between a 737 or 787, they’d take the latter.

 

[Saab34]

So does this flight make money? Or is it just slot sitting? Average loads 120/130 would indicate unlikely.

They have a sole MAX essentially dedicated to this flight also, at $500k/month, likely isn’t great usage of equipment, which would no doubt pull in much more revenue allocated to another flying plan with increased use.

 

[MooTime]

I’ve done a 6hr20min flight on a packed 737. It really isn’t fun.

Limited overhead space. Blocked aisles when service carts are out. Nowhere to really stand when queuing for the WCs. Many reasons why they’re not fun.

If these are holiday routes, people prolly only fly it once, not frequently. But I bet if they had a choice in future between a 737 or 787, they’d take the latter.

Everyone I speak to about flying have absolute no idea what plane type they're going to be on. Or even care, it's all about the destination.

Single aisle or wide body means nothing to so many.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Everyone I speak to about flying have absolute no idea what plane type they're going to be on. Or even care, it's all about the destination.

Single aisle or wide body means nothing to so many.

Agree.

Until they get in the plane!

No one expects to be sitting on a cramped narrow body for 6, 7 or 8 hours. You’d just assume it was a standard long haul international aircraft.

Not sure people don’t care or know about planes. When I mention I fly Rex between melbourne and Sydney… i am surprised that more that half exclaim their disbelief anyone would want to fly on a small propellor plane that far. They think rex is only the saabs.

 

[Digicola]

Agree.

Until they get in the plane!

No one expects to be sitting on a cramped narrow body for 6, 7 or 8 hours. You’d just assume it was a standard long haul international aircraft.

Not sure people don’t care or know about planes. When I mention I fly Rex between melbourne and Sydney… i am surprised that more that half exclaim their disbelief anyone would want to fly on a small propellor plane that far. They think rex is only the saabs.

Thats when they know what rex even is. People always ask me if Rex is good because its « cheaper than Virgin » but nobody seems to have ever heard about them.

 

[ben95]

No one expects to be sitting on a cramped narrow body for 6, 7 or 8 hours. You’d just assume it was a standard long haul international aircraft.

I’m not sure though. There may be a mental effect seeing a smaller plane but in economy is there really much difference in terms of comfort? In the US flights between the coasts and to Hawaii are 6+ hours, and narrow bodies are the norm, seems fine to me.

The VA 737 seats (old and new) are comfortable enough (I think UA uses the same seat in their international 787 as well) and got enough leg room. With streaming entertainment and charging ports it’s maybe just missing the IFE screen you’d get from international long haul wide bodies but WiFi steaming is better for me since they work with my own BT noise cancelling headphones. If you guarantee Internet availability on that 737 MAX I’d happily spend 8 hours on it over say a QF 330 with no internet but all the standard international long haul amenities.

Limited overhead storage space is a problem compared to widebody, but I find international flights to be slightly better than domestic since people are more willing to check-in luggage. Also less space in the galley to queue/stretch out but overall I think it’s not a significant difference that I would care.

 

[HS-TQE]

It does remind me of the old days of 747s vs 767s where the average person' sees a 767 at the gate for their international flight and then says "Why do we have a small plane at the gate??? I thought international planes were supposed to be jumbo jets" (747s)

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I’m not sure though. There may be a mental effect seeing a smaller plane but in economy is there really much difference in terms of comfort? In the US flights between the coasts and to Hawaii are 6+ hours, and narrow bodies are the norm, seems fine to me.

The VA 737 seats (old and new) are comfortable enough (I think UA uses the same seat in their international 787 as well) and got enough leg room. With streaming entertainment and charging ports it’s maybe just missing the IFE screen you’d get from international long haul wide bodies but WiFi steaming is better for me since they work with my own BT noise cancelling headphones. If you guarantee Internet availability on that 737 MAX I’d happily spend 8 hours on it over say a QF 330 with no internet but all the standard international long haul amenities.

Limited overhead storage space is a problem compared to widebody, but I find international flights to be slightly better than domestic since people are more willing to check-in luggage. Also less space in the galley to queue/stretch out but overall I think it’s not a significant difference that I would care.

It’s more than psychological. As i mentioned in my earlier post, movement around the aircraft or access to facilities is severely restricted when carts are in the aisle. One a wide body you generally have WCs at the front and rear, so you can usually get to a toilet - within your cabin!! - if you really have to.

On 737s/a320s there also nowhere to comfortably wait for the WC. You’re literally standing in the aisle and have to shuffle around to let the person out. And then you have to squeeze past everyone else waiting.

There’s no ‘breakout’ area to stretch your legs, grab a snack and have a couple minutes respite from your economy seat.

People may not pay too much attention to the aircraft type, but they ‘know’ once they’re on!

 

[p--and--t]

It’s more than psychological. As i mentioned in my earlier post, movement around the aircraft or access to facilities is severely restricted when carts are in the aisle. One a wide body you generally have WCs at the front and rear, so you can usually get to a toilet - within your cabin!! - if you really have to.

On 737s/a320s there also nowhere to comfortably wait for the WC. You’re literally standing in the aisle and have to shuffle around to let the person out. And then you have to squeeze past everyone else waiting.

There’s no ‘breakout’ area to stretch your legs, grab a snack and have a couple minutes respite from your economy seat.

People may not pay too much attention to the aircraft type, but they ‘know’ once they’re on!

Recently flew a 737MAX from NAN to BNE, couldn't wait to get off. Every seat occupied and only 2 toilets and queuing was a absolute zoo.

 

[twinaisle]

If these are holiday routes, people prolly only fly it once, not frequently. But I bet if they had a choice in future between a 737 or 787, they’d take the latter.

They'd take the latter until they see cheap fares and forget about everything else.

Luckily enough this flight won't go more than 150pax depending on weather and fuel so the extra space is great.

 

[elanshin]

So does this flight make money? Or is it just slot sitting? Average loads 120/130 would indicate unlikely.

They have a sole MAX essentially dedicated to this flight also, at $500k/month, likely isn’t great usage of equipment, which would no doubt pull in much more revenue allocated to another flying plan with increased use.

I'd be surprised if it's very profitable. Then again I'd suspect for VA that even if it's breakeven it'd be "successful".

Future HND slot gives potential suitors a nice slot to play with. That slot alone would have quite a bit of value.

 

[HS-TQE]

Keeping a reminder that CNS Airport, North Queensland tourism bodies and the Queensland Government taxpayers through the AAIF is partially subsidising the VA CNS-HND service (I.e reduced landing & ground handling fees, marketing & tourism, and so on).

It could be argued that Bain would've let the slot lapse a few years ago if it wasn't for the Queensland Government led AAIF subsidy program.

 

[Happy Dude]

If VA re-opened the CNS lounge and offered something in HND, it'd be a big(ger) incentive for elites. Might even be enough to offset the pain of the 737. CNS is a coughpy airport to connect.

 

[elanshin]

If VA re-opened the CNS lounge and offered something in HND, it'd be a big(ger) incentive for elites. Might even be enough to offset the pain of the 737. CNS is a coughpy airport to connect.

Or even offer the same partner that SQ uses (escape?)

HND can be solved if they they could renegotiate with NH, but I suspect that's too costly.

 

[twinaisle]

If VA re-opened the CNS lounge and offered something in HND, it'd be a big(ger) incentive for elites. Might even be enough to offset the pain of the 737. CNS is a coughpy airport to connect.

Elites would have flown on partner airlines and not route themselves through CNS.

The ones who do know what they are getting and go through CNS as it's either cheaper or have snapped up reward seats tbh.

 

[Saab34]

Hopefully incoming new Management will fix the lounge issue. The revenue gain will offset the extra costs associated with any lounge contract.

I would get if CNS never for access considering the one flight per day. But the three major capitals, it’s certainly a missing piece of the puzzle.

 

[Happy Dude]

Elites would have flown on partner airlines and not route themselves through CNS.

The ones who do know what they are getting and go through CNS as it's either cheaper or have snapped up reward seats tbh.

Hence the need to further incentivise them. Only reason at the moment are, as you say, cheap or reward tix.

 

[HS-TQE]

High-Yielding Elites wouldn't have the time to go through CNS, and as stated CNS-HND is largely a inbound route partially subsidised by the Queensland Government, CNS and Tourism Interests in North Queensland. Ex-Australia Outbound traffic for VA is largely low yield scraps.