Tokyo Haneda slot - how will Virgin Operate it?

[simmomelb]

I dislike Virgin now as there is no inflight service on domestic flts .

Sorry? Of course there is in-flight service
Oh, you are missing junk "free" (included in fare) food? Oh that's a completely separate point.

 

[PERLHR]

I think VA did not help themselves down the back on the route where one would have thought, it would have been perhaps reasonable,that they offered hot meals to buy. If the aircraft provided could not cope for that (although we find TUI aircraft of the same type providing ample hot meals throughout Europe) the complete business model was flawed. I also find it somewhat sad that for many affected by canx flights that it seems they are not being offered flights on ANA. VA go to great lengths to say that ANA are their partners but obviously only selectively.

 

[Digicola]

I also find it somewhat sad that for many affected by canx flights that it seems they are not being offered flights on ANA. VA go to great lengths to say that ANA are their partners but obviously only selectively.

I think you would find that it has little to do with VA and more to do with NH pushing its weight around whilst not wanting to pull it. VA has little bargaining power and NH is hard to work with, they haven’t even been willing to grant any substantial perks to VFFs even adding zonal/code restrictions.


I flew this service a couple weeks after launch and found it adequate but wouldn’t ever be my first option. Transiting in CNS like many aussie ports is not so straightforward. They should have a domestic transfer bag drop inside the intl terminal. The F&B situation inside the terminal isn’t great either. Its restrictive in so many ways.

I wish they’d magically find some 787s and operate BNE instead… the VA of old would have gotten a couple used A330s whilst new planes get delivered… not that that was a successful venture

 

[PERLHR]

I think you would find that it has little to do with VA and more to do with NH pushing its weight around whilst not wanting to pull it. VA has little bargaining power and NH is hard to work with, they haven’t even been willing to grant any substantial perks to VFFs even adding zonal/code restrictions.


I flew this service a couple weeks after launch and found it adequate but wouldn’t ever be my first option. Transiting in CNS like many aussie ports is not so straightforward. They should have a domestic transfer bag drop inside the intl terminal. The F&B situation inside the terminal isn’t great either. Its restrictive in so many ways.

I wish they’d magically find some 787s and operate BNE instead… the VA of old would have gotten a couple used A330s whilst new planes get delivered… not that that was a successful venture

VA need to be careful what they advertise with their partners. They make more out of it than what is delivered. If NH are that hard to deal with then yes they should pull it.

VA was never going to have wide bodies under the new "look" so no point in wishing magic.

All Australian airports with the separate domestic and international airports and worse separate terminals without adequate connections for pax need to be totally re examined. It's a joke I agree.

 

[HS-TQE]

I think you would find that it has little to do with VA and more to do with NH pushing its weight around whilst not wanting to pull it. VA has little bargaining power and NH is hard to work with, they haven’t even been willing to grant any substantial perks to VFFs even adding zonal/code restrictions.

Probably one of the many reasons also why NH's loads ex-Australia has been mediocre at best. Any VA traffic that NH is picking up would be low yield at most, very difficult to see medium let alone high yield leisure pax from VA on the NH services.

I'd have to wonder if the freight NH is carrying is subsidising the low pax loads on their HND services

 

[Himeno]

Probably one of the many reasons also why NH's loads ex-Australia has been mediocre at best. Any VA traffic that NH is picking up would be low yield at most, very difficult to see medium let alone high yield leisure pax from VA on the NH services.

I'd have to wonder if the freight NH is carrying is subsidising the low pax loads on their HND services

What were NH's SYD-HND loads like when they just had the night slot? Maybe adding the 2nd flight with the day slots has lowered the overall load rate.
How about their PER-NRT flight? (has that resumed yet?)

If NH had better loads before they got the 2nd SYD flight and the VA deal, that could show where the problem is.

 

[PERLHR]

What were NH's SYD-HND loads like when they just had the night slot? Maybe adding the 2nd flight with the day slots has lowered the overall load rate.
How about their PER-NRT flight? (has that resumed yet?)

If NH had better loads before they got the 2nd SYD flight and the VA deal, that could show where the problem is.

Would not be surprised if NH drop one of the SYD sectors soon? Also PER route is seasonal. Starts again in October I think....(It's somewhere in one of the forums). It's also quite expensive in biz ..where last time I priced it it was nearly 10k return!!

 

[sudoer]

Would not be surprised if NH drop one of the SYD sectors soon?

It's been a while since I've looked at their schedules but from memory one of the departures is overnight, usually preferable for those destined for Tokyo or domestic connections in Japan, and one is a daytime flight that connects well to ANA's bank of international evening departures (and *A codeshares) to Europe and North America.

If the 2nd daily flight is feeding premium pax onto those high yield routes maybe they can sustain these loads? (and supplement with freight of course)

 

[elanshin]

Would not be surprised if NH drop one of the SYD sectors soon? Also PER route is seasonal. Starts again in October I think....(It's somewhere in one of the forums). It's also quite expensive in biz ..where last time I priced it it was nearly 10k return!!

Unless they want to figure out logistics of going MEL, they need to hold the HND slot.

It's hard to say with NH since objectively its better in every area than QF flying to tokyo. My friend has long sworn by NH from SYD - HND over QF and JL always had the premium price where NH didn't.

That being said their current Y sale prices are still a fair bit higher than their precovid sale prices. Those used to drop into the 800s and 700s and now it's always 980 or so on sale.

It's been a while since I've looked at their schedules but from memory one of the departures is overnight, usually preferable for those destined for Tokyo or domestic connections in Japan, and one is a daytime flight that connects well to ANA's bank of international evening departures (and *A codeshares) to Europe and North America.

If the 2nd daily flight is feeding premium pax onto those high yield routes maybe they can sustain these loads? (and supplement with freight of course)

9pm departure for evening landing early morning and I think the morning is about close to QF departure at around noon. Basically roughly the same schedule as QF.

 

[Digicola]

Unless they want to figure out logistics of going MEL, they need to hold the HND slot.

It's hard to say with NH since objectively its better in every area than QF flying to tokyo. My friend has long sworn by NH from SYD - HND over QF and JL always had the premium price where NH didn't.

That being said their current Y sale prices are still a fair bit higher than their precovid sale prices. Those used to drop into the 800s and 700s and now it's always 980 or so on sale.

9pm departure for evening landing early morning and I think the morning is about close to QF departure at around noon. Basically roughly the same schedule as QF.

NH and QF timings a perfect as you get a choice of a redeye or daytime in both directions and get good connections on both ends.

I’d say NH is behind QF on SYD-HND though. The seats whilst similar are a bit more comfortable on QF and the warmer colours make it less hostile to the body, its a feeling thats hard to explain. QF also supplies full pjs you can keep and have a seat topper that goes the full length whereas NH’s one is half sized (although it feels more useful due to its design, those who have tried will understand).

NH’s big advantage is their price, their use of a 787 and wifi. Three things I don’t see QF budge on in the near term (I know wifi is coming but its still years away.

A VA1 The Business product would blow everyone out of the water on this market. Hands down.

 

[simmomelb]

NH and QF timings a perfect as you get a choice of a redeye or daytime in both directions and get good connections on both ends.

I’d say NH is behind QF on SYD-HND though. The seats whilst similar are a bit more comfortable on QF and the warmer colours make it less hostile to the body, its a feeling thats hard to explain. QF also supplies full pjs you can keep and have a seat topper that goes the full length whereas NH’s one is half sized (although it feels more useful due to its design, those who have tried will understand).

NH’s big advantage is their price, their use of a 787 and wifi. Three things I don’t see QF budge on in the near term (I know wifi is coming but its still years away.

A VA1 The Business product would blow everyone out of the water on this market. Hands down.

I've never been a fan of PJs from airlines, I must be the odd one here, but they can keep them

Yes, The Business to/from BNE, SYD or MEL - HND would have been the ideal solution and in my view, would have been popular with a unique offering.
As much as I personally like CNS, it isn't the first place international tourists want to visit, it needs (needed) to be one of the 3 major cities, and tourists can then branch out from there, if they wish to.
I'd be shocked if VA management doesn't have some regret in letting go of their 777's.

 

[PERLHR]

Well, twice I called ANA with ANA PNR and twice refused to be allowed to get seat assignment.

The reason given ..it's a codeshare with VA.

Shows what ANA really thinks of VA! Quite disappointing really. Looks like we will be given the dregs of whatever is left!

 

[elanshin]

Well, twice I called ANA with ANA PNR and twice refused to be allowed to get seat assignment.

The reason given ..it's a codeshare with VA.

Shows what ANA really thinks of VA! Quite disappointing really. Looks.like we will.be given the dregs of whatever is left!

I think that was clear when ANA didn't give VA lounge access at HND. It always felt very much like NH didn't care for VA, but they had to find a partner to feed to their SYD - HND flights.

 

[PERLHR]

I think that was clear when ANA didn't give VA lounge access at HND. It always felt very much like NH didn't care for VA, but they had to find a partner to feed to their SYD - HND flights.

Well it's not really partnering is it? Hopefully being in business class lounge access despite codeshare will be ok.....surely!! I will stick in the future to my BA status, fly QF and JL (at least it's all easier and you understand where you stand). Also not that it matters, I actually found the NH website coughbersome and awkward.

 

[Mattg]

Also not that it matters, I actually found the NH website coughbersome and awkward.

Have you tried using the JAL website?

 

[HS-TQE]

Well, twice I called ANA with ANA PNR and twice refused to be allowed to get seat assignment.

The reason given ..it's a codeshare with VA.

Shows what ANA really thinks of VA! Quite disappointing really. Looks like we will be given the dregs of whatever is left!

The pending VA/NZ one-way/unilateral partnership (where VA buys seats/lounge access on NZ Trans-Tasman services and resells them as a authorised agent) seems to be a better arrangement than the current VA/NH mess.

 

[PERLHR]

Have you tried using the JAL website?

Yeah I have...in fact just booked JAL for Dec from SIN to CDG and back. Apart from the domestic and international parts of the site being different it's not nearly as bad as NH..,..and let's me pop in all my BA FF stuff...,and even choose a seat...

Will NH let us I to their lounges as Biz on VA codeshare or is that something else the "partner" cannot have?

 

[encryptededdy]

Will NH let us I to their lounges as Biz on VA codeshare or is that something else the "partner" cannot have?

Yes I'm sure that'll be fine, trying to use FF status (as opposed to class of travel) is when you usually run into issues.

 

[SCM]

NH release awards about a fortnight out for J it seems and I’ve found that VA has far more availability than other partners. J seats available nearly every day in both directions

Wow you are right! Thanks for the tip.

 

[FL360]

Just returned to my Seoul hotel, read the news about VA puling out of HND and checked my email.

I have a Japan trip booked for October/November and just received notification my return flight seems to be cancelled. They want me to return a day earlier which does not suit me.

It looks like they are beginning to pull flights.

I don't feel like a long phone call back to Oz which is the only way they seem to want to do business. From past experience thee platinum email section is usually quite unhelpful and slow to respond.
View attachment 398757

they can't allow Y pax to have two empty seats next to them, hence the high density schedule change operation.....