Tokyo Haneda slot - how will Virgin Operate it?

[BRIS_VA_HAWK]

Weather predictions can quickly change.
An airline which oversells seats know it can't accomodate all those passengers if all of them try to checkin. Airlines have offloaded passengers, luggage, freight in order to meet the requirements of the flight. Even Qantas.

Any thought to adding a tech stop until the Max arrives to enable more seats to be sold??

 

[VOZ102]

It's complicated to stop because of US TSA rules and the only place to do it (and planned for by VA) is GUM on the way up. On the way back it will be DRW with a mandatory crew swap. If you go via GUM no one is allowed even off the plane, except one engineer. The info to VA crew is as follows:

"If insufficient fuel can be carried, then we will explore all options before committing to a technical stop – up to and including cancelling the flight!"
Also:
"We are at already at maximum fuel tank capacity, so getting the fuel truck back is not an option. If you wanted to ‘up’ the fuel, then the only way to achieve this is to make the airplane lighter and burn less fuel – the only way to make the plane lighter is to offload passengers. Cargo will not be carried in/out of Haneda. What would this look like on day of operations if we were carrying 83 PAX. If we planned to arrive with 3,235 kg fuel on arrival (an extra 200 kg ) this would result in a passenger offload of 18 passengers.
That is not a typo!
• 18 PAX would need to ‘come off’ for that extra 200 kg of arrival fuel
• 33 PAX would be coming off if an extra 500 kg arrival fuel was carried.

Eye watering numbers that illustrate the commercial cost of carrying ‘just that bit of extra fuel’ on these longer sectors."

Anyway it's only temporary, the MAX is much better performance wise but it will never be able to carry a full load of pax - so enjoy the space! Dumb route for VA but well... you know, slots. Blah blah.

 

[Mattg]

The planned introduction of the 737-8 on the route has been brought forward to the end of July.

Virgin Australia Moves Forward 737 MAX Tokyo Service to late-July 2023 — AeroRoutes

Published at 1200GMT 28JUN23 Virgin Australia in this week’s schedule update moved forward the introduction of Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft service on Cairns – Tokyo Haneda route. Previously scheduled from 09AUG23, the MAX variant will now operate service on this route from 30JUL23. The airline to

www.aeroroutes.com

 

[AIRwin]

Brought forward to 30 July?

Hai!

 

[AIRwin]

Batik flies MEL-KUL with the MAX-8 non-stop, and that takes 8 hours each way. May be time to research their load restrictions on the MAX-8 for that particular flight.

Removed during Northern Winter season:

Batik Air Malaysia NW23 Melbourne Service Changes — AeroRoutes

Published at 1300GMT 28JUN23 Batik Air Malaysia in the last few days revised planned service to Melbourne, as the airline removed planned nonstop Kuala Lumpur – Melbourne service during Northern winter 2023/24 season. The airline previously scheduled 7 weekly nonstop service between 01DEC23 and

www.aeroroutes.com

 

[Digicola]

Well one silver lining of VA77 being delayed is I got to see it taxi just now as I landed from GMP. Would have already been long gone had it been on time.




Forgive the poor quality, night photography from a moving plane never yields great results.

Seems like VA gets a hardstand for being naughty and late. The irony of QF61 (BNE-HND) being pictured in the background is not lost on me.

 

[HS-TQE]

Thanks for the detail.

Really sounds like a 330/787 would be more profitable operating from Sydney or Brisbane.

Does seem like a waste having a whole 737M allocated to this route.

With QF ending their limited (AAIF funded) BNE-HND services in favour of daily (unsubsidised) BNE-NRT and moving their OOL-NRT services to BNE-NRT with BAC funding, and transferring their State Government AAIF funding from OOL-NRT to BNE-KIX/ICN. I'd say it's a move to stop not only a NH/VA service, but also effectively block their own Oneworld partner JL from starting any BNE-Japan services in the future.

 

[ANstar]

I don't know if I'd be hanging my hat on ex-Japan saving the route as a foreign carrier with limited recognition, going against a carrier operating a widebody that has a local subsidiary and thus brand recognition. Which itself might explain VA's tardiness to getting ex-Japan set up.

I thought most of the CNS-Japan market was Japanese tour groups... so you would need Japan POS for that,

 

[JasonK]

The first 2 flights have both been more than an hour late

 

[jrfsp]

The first 2 flights have both been more than an hour late

Over the past two days, the flight time has been exactly an hour longer than the competing JQ 787, negating any time advantage flying into HND.

 

[MooTime]

Over the past two days, the flight time has been exactly an hour longer than the competing JQ 787, negating any time advantage flying into HND.

I believe the advantage of flying into HND is the proximity to Tokyo as in comparison from Narita.
Time advantange in flying time is a non-issue.

 

[justinbrett]

Time advantange in flying time is a non-issue.

I think that's quite subjective.

As for proximity to Tokyo that depends on the destination - for a place like Shinjuku the difference is only about 20 minutes if using public transport, or up to 45 minutes if getting a taxi. Public transport is relatively slow from HND. Eastern Tokyo or areas to the north can be quicker from NRT.

 

[jrfsp]

I believe the advantage of flying into HND is the proximity to Tokyo as in comparison from Narita.
Time advantange in flying time is a non-issue.

I think you missed my point, VAs main selling point over JQ is that it arrives into the closer HND.

However if the flight takes an hour longer than JQs, it throws out any advantage of being closer to the city, as above the difference in travel time generally from NRT is less than an hour.

Will be interesting to see how the 73M goes in ski season if people are bringing lots of baggage, will there be excess baggage restrictions?

 

[MooTime]

I think you missed my point, VAs main selling point over JQ is that it arrives into the closer HND.

However if the flight takes an hour longer than JQs, it throws out any advantage of being closer to the city, as above the difference in travel time generally from NRT is less than an hour.

Will be interesting to see how the 73M goes in ski season if people are bringing lots of baggage, will there be excess baggage restrictions?

I did miss that point you were making, cheers for clearing it up. Yes I agree, guess the 700 a slow flying bird.

The 8Max comes into operation 30th July, so those travelling for skiing purpose, best to hold off to catch JQ.

I think that's quite subjective.

As for proximity to Tokyo that depends on the destination - for a place like Shinjuku the difference is only about 20 minutes if using public transport, or up to 45 minutes if getting a taxi. Public transport is relatively slow from HND. Eastern Tokyo or areas to the north can be quicker from NRT.

25mins difference HNS & NRT, I'd say that's a non-issue in a ~10 hour flight. The flight time can vary upto 45mins according recent FlightRadar times.

Of course different parts of Tokyo makes a difference to which airport you come in on & time to get there.
It's well subscribed that arriving at HND is widely regarded as a preference over NRT.

 

[stm1sydney]

HND into Shinagawa is only 20min.

 

[AIRwin]

The first 2 flights have both been more than an hour late

Third time lucky!

 

[Must...Fly!]

I'm sure I know the answer to this but I thought I would ask, how is this crewed from a layover perspective? Just a single overnight, or two nights to allow for stepping up in the case of someone going off sick?

 

[twinaisle]

I'm sure I know the answer to this but I thought I would ask, how is this crewed from a layover perspective? Just a single overnight, or two nights to allow for stepping up in the case of someone going off sick?

Single night. For everything else there's MasterCard... Or cancellation

 

[VOZ102]

Pax: 38 up 35 back y'day/today.

 

[Saab34]

Single night. For everything else there's MasterCard... Or cancellation

Is it a 4 or 5 cabin crew op?