Treatment of LOTE pax by Domestic Crew

[kevrosmith]

I've noticed the number of Chinese tourist pax flying in and out of CNS domestically is on the steady rise in the last 12 months. I've been on many flights (predominantly QF, but also DJ) with larger groups of Chinese passengers travelling together. It is often apparent (to me at least) that their English language skills are not great.

I'm often surprised at how much little tolerance crew have for pax for whom English is not their first language, if one at all! I've observed quite a few incidents which must not leave a great impression on these visitors to our country. All of our announcements are made in English, so I wouldn't be surprised if some pax have no clue on what is being said or announced throughout the whole flight.

Recently on a flight, the CSM was very rude and surly to foreign passengers. On an E190 flight from SYD-CNS, pax were sitting in Row 1 (J class seats) while waiting to use the forward toilet. The CSM was trying to get them out of the seats and was telling them to wait next to the door. It was clearly obvious (to me at least) that they were unable to understand the instructions being given, but rather than using patience and attempting other means of communication (such as hand signals and simple English), the CSM berated the passengers.

Later in the flight, the seat belt sign was illuminated for turbulence, and an announcement was made for us to take our seats. A number of pax mustn't have understood and were still walking around. We had the CSM repeatedly squawking on the PA system telling pax to take their seats, when it was clear that those pax didn't understand what was being said.

In contrast, on the same flight, the passenger behind me attempted to get up. I simply pointed to the sign and made a downward motion with my hand. They quickly understood and took their seat again. Also in contrast, I've been on flights where the seat belt sign has been illuminated mid-flight and the CSM has asked other passengers who could understand the instructions to assist passengers around them who couldn't understand. There is a way to communicate with integrity and respect.

These are a few specific examples, but I have observed other similar situations related to passenger with Languages Other Than English.

In contrast, I was on a recent Japan Domestic flight. All announcements, both safety announcements, greetings and even the pilots announcement, were made in both Japanese and English. When I was served, the FA spoke with me in English, and I felt no different or unwelcome to any of the other pax on board. (I don't make this point to suggest our airlines should be making announcements in foreign languages, but I take my hate off to the Japanese for including me when I was there by using English).

Of course, this doesn't just apply to Chinese visitors, but European non-English speaking travelers tend to hide a bit more easily among other pax, and from my experience Japanese tourists have a little bit more English than Chinese visitors. I've just noticed an increase in the numbers arriving, and it will only continue to increase. (We certainly need visitor numbers to increase!)

Have others observed similar situations? Is anyone aware if crew are provided cultural training or ways to handle such situations?

 

[dfcatch]

My flight ex CNS this morning reminded me that it was Chinese new year.

And yes - it does represent a situation where you have large groups of non-English speaking pax travelling together. It's this combination that presents the challenge (the group size) not just the language.

 

[drron]

Though when there are large groups surely there should be a tour guide/leader with some local knowledge and language.
Not excusing the described behaviour but there are always at least 2 sides to a problem.

 

[eastwest101]

Yes - have seen this a few times on QF/JQ and DJ domestic flights and agree that more training could be provided. Rare kudos to Jetstar International as well - when I recently flew JQi and was very impressed by the crew and PA announcements in both Japanese and English - was well done and very professional.

 

[Austman]

Just an observation: On domestic flights within China, where the announcements were in Mandarin (and English and perhaps Cantonese), I've witnessed many of the issues that you describe.

 

[kevrosmith]

Just an observation: On domestic flights within China, where the announcements were in Mandarin (and English and perhaps Cantonese), I've witnessed many of the issues that you describe.

That's certainly interesting to hear and to keep in mind. My foreign-language-country experience is limited to Japan only... so can only base my experience from this.

 

[LiamR]

It's a real problem out of Gold Coast, there's a lot of Chinese tour groups flying to Sydney, and the crew struggle to communicate to them in a professional way.

One of the hot points I've noticed is pax who book an exit row seat, but do not speak an acceptable level of English to understand the safety briefing.

It's very common on late night flights out of OOL to hear a PA asking for anybody who would like to swap to an exit row.

Maybe we need to look at having some pre recorded announcements done in other languages? For the crew's discretion to use if there are tour groups or large amounts of LOTE pax onboard?

Food for thought.

 

[MarkD]

I think you understand they cannot do the safety talk in every language, that's why the safety card has lots of pictures with planes in water and crashing and on fire. So they can look at the card. Unfortunately, and at the risk of sounding racist, my business is very much involved with Chinese tourists, they really are like sheep, you need to be firm and straight to the point, that is what they understand. In regard to English of your guides, well the ones that accompany the tourists onboard are Chinese nationals, they speak English about as well as I speak mandarin. Local Australian guides most of the time speak some English, but it's dodgy as well. So in summary, brief straight to the point instructions is what works

 

[moa999]

Just an observation: On domestic flights within China, where the announcements were in Mandarin (and English and perhaps Cantonese), I've witnessed many of the issues that you describe.

Given some recent domestic flights on CZ, MU there just seems to be a view that cabin crew instructions just aren't important' maybe a class/ superiority thing??

 

[fjc]

I've flown a few times CNS-SYD and BNE-SYD with Chinese tour groups, and have found them rather DYKWIA.

One trip in particular sticks in my mind. We were coming into land, and lady sitting across aisle from me did not have seat belt on and had large handbag on lap. Hostie politely request that she etc etc. PAX complied, but as soon as the hostie moved away, seat belt came off and handbag back on lap. Requested 2nd time with same result. We landed with PAX unrestrained and large handbag on lap.

On the same flight, a large gentleman was talking to another PAX just in front of me and blocking the aisle. Same hostie tried to get past. PAX looked at her, clearly understood what she wanted (she was using hand signals etc) but turned away and went on talking. The poor hostie finally had to squeeze past trying very hard not to touch him.

I can understand how the FAs get annoyed with such attitudes.

My brother, who lives and works in CNS, said that it is a problem up there.

 

[elbarto]

Just an observation: On domestic flights within China, where the announcements were in Mandarin (and English and perhaps Cantonese), I've witnessed many of the issues that you describe.

English is the agreed upon universal language of Aviation. So you will, should, always get an announcement in english. Last year I flew MAD-LIS and the annoucements were in English, Spanish and Portuguese.

 

[MarkD]

I don't thinks it's so much a DYKWIA as much as a basic don't give a stuff about you attitude, they, as a general rule are on heavily subsidised travel paid for by duty free shops, and they do tend to get a bit toffee nosed but generally they honestly don't know any different, it's in their culture. It's something we as westerners find arrogant and pig headed. Koreans are similar, japs are the complete opposite, very quiet an obliging

 

[drron]

I don't thinks it's so much a DYKWIA as much as a basic don't give a stuff about you attitude, they, as a general rule are on heavily subsidised travel paid for by duty free shops, and they do tend to get a bit toffee nosed but generally they honestly don't know any different, it's in their culture. It's something we as westerners find arrogant and pig headed. Koreans are similar, japs are the complete opposite, very quiet an obliging

I think this is spot on.On one cruise we did there was a Chinese group of ~ 12 pax.Their guide spoke impeccable Ameri-english(had studied at Yale).One night she was on our table and i asked about the group-she said i am young,they wont take notice of what i say,they are just going to do their own thing no matter what.And this was on an upmarket cruise line so obviously fairly rich Chinese nationals.

 

[spudseamus]

Travelling to Frankfurt some yrs ago I was fascinated by a F/A (female Lufthansa) conversing in 3 languages in one conversation ,when she had finished i couldn't help but ask her did she do that often as it seemed to me to be seamless she informed me in her Germanic way "Dat she spoke 7 languages fluently and could seamlessly converse in all seven at the same time " wow! I was blown away with that !! what a wonderful gift! from memory the list was --English--German--Mandarin-- Cantonese-- Japanese-- Dutch --Thai :shock: what an asset for any International airline

 

[brad330]

QF are VERY GOOD at this on flights EX Cairns, Most flights have a Japanese speaking crew member. even CNS-HTI anouncments and saftey demo are in Japanese on a Dash 8!

 

[drron]

Travelling to Frankfurt some yrs ago I was fascinated by a F/A (female Lufthansa) conversing in 3 languages in one conversation ,when she had finished i couldn't help but ask her did she do that often as it seemed to me to be seamless she informed me in her Germanic way "Dat she spoke 7 languages fluently and could seamlessly converse in all seven at the same time " wow! I was blown away with that !! what a wonderful gift! from memory the list was --English--German--Mandarin-- Cantonese-- Japanese-- Dutch --Thai :shock: what an asset for any International airline

Reminds me of the time we hosted the Soviet ambassador to the Hunter Valley in the early 80s.The interpreter spoke 6 languages fluently as well as Russian as did his wife-though none of her 6 were those that her husband spoke.Apparently that was very common in the Soviet union at that time.

 

[dfcatch]

The guides on these flights are non-English speaking Chinese as well.

On my flight yesterday - the Chinese speaking group leader decided to reorganize the seating of half the plane whilst the crew were trying to prepare for departure. Pretty standard really.

It's a cultural thing - but as it's been said - firmness is necessary as they are the polar opposite to Japanese in the "compliance with directions" regard.

That said - they are the new Japanese from an economic perspective - so I'm sure organizations like QF are already looking at ways to make them feel "more welcome".

"Sitzen in deine seat MIT dein seatbelt.... NOW!!!

 

[ChrisFlyer]

Regarding multi-lingual crew, if the tour group gives the airline enough notice, usually they will try to ensure that at least one staff member that speaks the group's languages is working in that cabin on the flight. As an example on a recent QF LHR-SIN flight, there was a group of around 40 French speakers travelling in Y, so the A380 safety video included both French and English audio and subtitles, and a French speaking crew member was present in the cabin where they were all sitting (and was wearing a French flag on her nametag).

Other examples include a CDG-MXP flight, where announcements were made in French, Italian and English, and an OS flight VCE-VIE, where live spoken announcements were made in German and English, while recorded Italian announcements were used.

The problem exists when a group of non-native language speakers makes a booking at the last minute, or doesn't notify the airline in time! Having said that, domestic flights do seem to shun the non-English speakers - I'm all in favour of pre-recorded multi-lingual announcements where justified, as I often end up helping the crew as a translator (when needed) out of pity for those involved - I'd much rather be seated, but if I don't need to sleep, I feel bad if others are hungry and have no idea how to ask for things (I speak Italian, German and French as well as English (obviously), and also basic sign language), or if the crew are having difficulty conveying something important... I see it as my way of balancing the universe, as so many people in Europe take the time to learn English, but when they arrive in Australia, no-one has bothered to learn even the basics of their language (outside of the major hotels or if you're extremely lucky).

 

[Alanslegal]

Given some recent domestic flights on CZ, MU there just seems to be a view that cabin crew instructions just aren't important' maybe a class/ superiority thing??

I don't think its a class/superiority thing at all but rather just very bad manners that these folks have adopted from living in a country that is developing and growing at 100 times faster than they can teach basic manners.

Another posted mentioned that even if the crew gave directions in their native tongue they would still be very resistant to listen or follow the instructions given. I have seen that happen on a recent 3K BKK-SIN where half the back of the plane were mainland chinese folks and the amount of noise they generated was amazing :shock: :evil: , their inability to follow instructions - yes there was a 3K stewardess on board who made announcements in the same language as what was being spoken, and just the general rudeness eg. pushing past you, reaching over you, climbing seats, overly loud speaking. Its unbelievable ..... or should I say, unbearable! :evil:

 

[Noob]

Virgin Australia ground crew now wear a small flag badge representing the country of any other language they can speak - I don't know if this is going to be rolled out in the air as well.