Unfortunate Experiences with Cathay Pacific

[turnley]

My wife & I flew from BNE to HKG in economy on Cathay Pacific CX156 on 10 May 2015
We have flown with CX before, Boeing 777-300, but not on an A330-300
I am not overly tall at 183cm, but when sitting upright, my knees were protruding into the back of the seat in front of me
This experience is not uncommon flying domestically, but never have I experienced such a confined space on an international flight
I was not the only person complaining
It would appear that CX have jammed as many rows in as it can get away with at the expense of passenger comfort
We will never fly on an A330-300 with CX ever again, such was the discomfort we had to endure
Our flight home from PEK to HKG on CX 5909 on 23 May 2015 was delayed 3hrs 24 mins, due to the late arrival of the aircraft from HKG because of bad weather
We arrived in HKG at 23:25PM
The delay meant we would probably miss our connecting flight to SYD and the connecting flight to BNE
We were happy to learn that our flight, CX161, was also delayed, due to bad weather in HKG, meaning we would not miss the flight
The boarding call came at 00:45am, 24 May 2015
At the point of scanning our boarding passes, we were directed to the service counter at Gate 68, whereupon an officious member of CX's ground staff advised that we had been taken off the flight, due it being overbooked!
The offer of hotel accommodation failed to satisfy our desire to get back to Australia
We had been booked on CX157 to BNE, scheduled departure today, 24 May 2015 at 12:50pm
When it was explained that we had no other choice, another staff member was instructed to lead us downstairs to Dragonair, where a hotel room voucher would be raised, including travel to and from the hotel and meals
The staff member who escorted us, was rude and uncommunicative
We are in our 60's and could not keep up with her walking pace, whereupon she turned around and glared at us!
Once at the Dragonair service counter, she 'threw' the paperwork to her colleague and just walked away from us with out speaking
The Dragonair staff member proceeded to book a hotel, after several attempts, all the while giggling and talking in Chinese to the only staff member attending the counter
The time is now 01:30am
Asked where to catch a taxi, we were told go through immigration, and follow the signs
There were so many people lined up at immigration and almost as many in the lineup for a taxi, it was 03:00am before we were on our way to the hotel in Kowloon
Arriving at the hotel at 03:30am, the taxi driver let me out of the taxi to find the Bell Captain who would pay the taxi fare
The taxi driver locked my wife in the taxi until the Bell Captain appeared with the cash
This was most unnerving and a little frightening for my wife
Finally in our room at 03:45am for a shower and a few hours sleep, with no luggage
Luckily the hotel provided the necessary toiletries
Breakfast at 07:30am was welcomed
Our shuttle bus departed the hotel at 09:35am, so we had plenty of time to go through Customs and wait for our flight at Gate 68 which was later changed to Gate 42
Our run of bad luck continued as the flight was delayed until 15:00pm, but due to traffic congestion on the tarmac, our flight did take off until 16:00pm
Cathay Pacific cannot be blamed for the bad weather that caused the delays
However the rudeness and lack of compassion and professionalism shown by their ground staff was inexcusable
CX would have known they were going to offload us in HKG
We could have been met at the disembarkation gate from PEK and escorted to the Dragonair service counter which would have allowed us a couple of extra hours to rest at the hotel
We will never fly with CX again

 

[RooFlyer]

I would definitely send a complaint into CX. I'm not sure how that's done; try to avoid 'feedback' pages on web sites - I'd phone them and ask who to write to in Australia (a name, not just a position).

Copy your letter to any executives you can easily identify in HKG etc.

However:

* Restrict the complaint to the actions and behaviours of CX staff . The configuration of the plane, the action of a taxi driver and the later delay in departing HKG for instance are not grounds for complaint to CX (and would distract from the core issues);

* Give dispassionate reasons why you found the actions unacceptable - ie your mobility. Don't get emotional "I will never fly CX again!" - just say why the actions were un-acceptable

* Give as much detail as you can, but don't get personal;

* There have been reports on this forum about other airlines un-loading 'seniors' due to over-booking and its been queried here if its due to airlines perception that seniors are less likely to argue and cause a fuss at the point of refusal (and indeed later). You might want to ask them about the objective reason why you and the person travelling with you were selected for off-loading. You probably won't get a straight answer, but worth making the point to them;

* Say what you want in response to your complaint. Frankly I would say anything beyond an apology would be a stretch, but have a think about it;

* Say that you would like a response and a reason for each point in your complaint;

* Don't accept a 'form' reply; don't get fobbed off. Follow it up if not satisfied with the reply.

You may or may not ultimately get satisfaction, but don't let airlines get away with stuff like this!!

 

[UP4014]

I would definitely send a complaint into CX. I'm not sure how that's done; try to avoid 'feedback' pages on web sites - I'd phone them and ask who to write to in Australia (a name, not just a position).

Copy your letter to any executives you can easily identify in HKG etc.

However:

* Restrict the complaint to the actions and behaviours of CX staff . The configuration of the plane, the action of a taxi driver and the later delay in departing HKG for instance are not grounds for complaint to CX (and would distract from the core issues);

* Give dispassionate reasons why you found the actions unacceptable - ie your mobility. Don't get emotional "I will never fly CX again!" - just say why the actions were un-acceptable

* Give as much detail as you can, but don't get personal;

* There have been reports on this forum about other airlines un-loading 'seniors' due to over-booking and its been queried here if its due to airlines perception that seniors are less likely to argue and cause a fuss at the point of refusal (and indeed later). You might want to ask them about the objective reason why you and the person travelling with you were selected for off-loading. You probably won't get a straight answer, but worth making the point to them;

* Say what you want in response to your complaint. Frankly I would say anything beyond an apology would be a stretch, but have a think about it;

* Say that you would like a response and a reason for each point in your complaint;

* Don't accept a 'form' reply; don't get fobbed off. Follow it up if not satisfied with the reply.

You may or may not ultimately get satisfaction, but don't let airlines get away with stuff like this!!

Excellent advice.

Matt

 

[trippin_the_rift]

While not excusing anything cathay staff did or didn't do in your situation - I'll provide some insight as to why/how this likely happened from the airline point of view.
This may assist in any feedback you provide to help you attain an optimal outcome...


Poor legroom
CX has more legroom and seat width in economy than Qantas, Thai, Singapore airlines etc... if you think CX is "jamming them in" - I'm not sure what airline you think will be better. As much as it sucks to hear this - if you need the space - pay for a better seat.

China delays
China flights are notoriously delayed on all airlines - especially non-mainland based carriers. Chinese ATC are well known for putting priority on mainland airlines. Compounding problems from HKG delays can be unavoidable, but your travel insurance should kick in at this point to provide you with some extras.

HKG delays / taxi issues
The past few weeks HKG has been hit hard with storms and delays. This affects all airlines and is not CX specific. Cathay are best placed to deal with issues as they have more hotel agreements than other airlines - and also more manpower to resume normal operations faster than the competition.

Another option would be do it all yourself and claim it back on travel insurance. Sounds like it was faster and more efficient for CX to have handled it for you anyhow - so you had the best possible outcome given the situation you were in at the time.

Hong Kong taxis only accept cash. If you needed to wait for the hotel to pay the driver - this comes down to being unlucky/poor planning (you likely had no HKD and didn't plan to be there). It's VERY normal in Hong Kong not to receive the fullest of the service until you pay (eg: American mother finally given baby's birth certificate after Hong Kong hospital bill dispute | South China Morning Post)

Staff treatment of your missed connection
There have been thousands of displaced passengers in HKG over the past few weeks from whether issues (black and red rain alerts). As you arrived so late the usual airport hotel options were full and being shuttled into Kowloon shows the volume of passengers these staff had to deal with. Think about it - 1000's of incoming CX passengers missing flight, it's 3am (well beyond normal working hours for airport staff as the airport practically closes at midnight). You're not the only person they are trying to accommodate so they need to keep processing as efficient as possible which means moving quickly. Not to mention you're in economy and not a Marco Polo member - this put you well down the priority list; although from your words it seems it was handled efficiently given the circumstances.

My personal opinion is that this was just life testing you out. CX staff being rude? Not sure about that but it's well past their normal duty hours and they're dealing with 100's of other passengers before they can go home. Also remember HKG isn't Australia so attitudes towards work and efficiency is wildly different to what your opinion may be.

In saying all that - what are you expecting CX will do for you?


Hopefully this gives you some insight to the other side of the equation and assists you with an optimal outcome if you provide feedback

 

[drron]

Well I will never fly CX Y again either!
RooFlyer gives good advice.

But unfortunately eventually who ever you choose to fly is going to let you down.

 

[mannej]

While not excusing anything cathay staff did or didn't do in your situation - I'll provide some insight as to why/how this likely happened from the airline point of view.
This may assist in any feedback you provide to help you attain an optimal outcome...
-snip-

Finally some perspective on this matter. Whilst not excusing CX, the last week or so has seen an extraordinary amount of delays in and out of HKG due to weather. And TTR is correct about the seat pitch on CX.

 

[turnley]

Thanks for your comments, they are much appreciated

What do we expect CX to do for us?

Absolutely nothing

This was my first post on this platform and what I was seeking was some explanations for what transpired which you and others have kindly provided

I do, however take issue with your comment on poor legroom

We have flown many times in economy on SIA, QAN & CX (777-300)

The CX A330-300 that we flew on (twice) definitely had the least legroom in economy, irrespective of any measurements provided by CX or sites like Seat Guru

Our connecting CX flight on 10 May 2015 from HKG to HND was in a 777-300

The difference in legroom was quite pronounced

I also wish to retract 'We will never fly with CX again'

What I meant was we will never fly in economy on a CX A330-300 again

 

[Anna]

What I meant was we will never fly in economy on a CX A330-300 again

If you stick around on AFF, you won't have to fly Y again at all

183cm is tall though, especially by Chinese standards.

 

[mannej]

What I meant was we will never fly in economy on a CX A330-300 again

Unless you are based in SYD, it doesn't leave you much choice out of Australia.

 

[RooFlyer]

Finally some perspective on this matter. Whilst not excusing CX, the last week or so has seen an extraordinary amount of delays in and out of HKG due to weather. And TTR is correct about the seat pitch on CX.

Yes, the airline's perspective as trippin-the-rift made clear, and very useful to read/consider. Given that this is a passenger's forum, with airline reps here and there, personally I'm not surprised that the passenger's perspective is given in other posts and indeed is the predominant perspective. I reckon that if airlines want their perspective to be given more prominence, they should participate.

Regarding the amount of weather etc, here's my perspective: Firstly its not unique. Secondly its not unexpected (should be planned for). And thirdly, no matter what the cause of delays, the amount of delays and so on, airline staff should act professionally and with good manners towards their passengers. If they can't do that, including under pressure, then they should find another position or management should find it for them. Its not as if CX is a tin pot airline operating in some environment unused to service. Would anyone here find the behaviour as reported, excusable from Qantas at SYD for instance?

I'd like to hear CX's perspective on those issues!

 

[Pushka]

If you stick around on AFF, you won't have to fly Y again...

Ain't that the truth!

 

[Alanslegal]

It would appear that CX have jammed as many rows in as it can get away with at the expense of passenger comfort
We will never fly on an A330-300 with CX ever again, such was the discomfort we had to endure

Cathay Pacific A330 economy seats indicate 32 inch pitch and 18.45 inch seat width. A comparable Qantas A330 plane which likely flies HKG-BNE offers seats which are 31 inch pitch and 17 inch seat width. Qantas' flagship A380 planes have economy seats that offer 31 inch and 17.5 inch respectively. So if Cathay Pacific might jam as many rows as possible, Qantas just jams them in more.

 

[prozac]

Well you are welcome here turnley. As Anna recommends, stick around for tips and tricks in order to minimise future disappointment.

 

[JohnK]

If you stick around on AFF, you won't have to fly Y again at all

183cm is tall though, especially by Chinese standards.

Where did I go wrong?

On second thoughts I don't want to know....

 

[Pushka]

Where did I go wrong?

On second thoughts I don't want to know....

You MrK are exercising your choice not to use your points or not reading the AA Advantage thread.

I posted a couple of years ago that I could only dream of having a shower on a plane. (I know, its a weird dream). But not only have done that but have experienced flying in F for a ridiculous price or been upgraded to both J and F because of status earned through knowing the system and booking flights using credit card points and not changing the actual $ spend.

 

[JohnK]

You MrK are exercising your choice not to use your points or not reading the AA Advantage thread.

I do read the AA thread. I have no need to go to Europe or the USA and I don't see the value in spending ~AUD2,000 to buy miles to travel in business class to Asia when economy is ~AUD700-800.

Also if you can find a way of booking AA awards for business class travel to BKK/SIN/HKG for specific dates <9 months out then please let me know.

The other consideration is status. If travelling on awards then not easy to maintain status but I am heading way off topic again.

 

[yohy?!]

I do read the AA thread. I have no need to go to Europe or the USA and I don't see the value in spending ~AUD2,000 to buy miles to travel in business class to Asia when economy is ~AUD700-800.

Also if you can find a way of booking AA awards for business class travel to BKK/SIN/HKG for specific dates <9 months out then please let me know.

The other consideration is status. If travelling on awards then not easy to maintain status but I am heading way off topic again.

I've been able to do a buy miles with AA for CX J awards to HKG only a few months out a year or so ago, found availability on QF then called AA office to confirm before buying the miles and ticketed - not the easiest process but well worth it.

 

[smit0847]

I do read the AA thread. I have no need to go to Europe or the USA and I don't see the value in spending ~AUD2,000 to buy miles to travel in business class to Asia when economy is ~AUD700-800.

Also if you can find a way of booking AA awards for business class travel to BKK/SIN/HKG for specific dates <9 months out then please let me know.

The other consideration is status. If travelling on awards then not easy to maintain status but I am heading way off topic again.

I agree with a lot of this but note i booked 2x CX J with QF points 3 weeks in advance last month

 

[cmon0005]

Odd about the CX A330 legroom, I am similar height to you and have flown CX A330 many times in the last 12 months, my legs were never that close to the seat in front!
Are you sure it wasn't just a strangely configured row? Rather than all the rows like that? Just out of interest what row number was it?
I last flew CX A330 in May HKG-SIN in Y.

Still worth writing a complaint about your other stuff.

 

[yohy?!]

Odd about the CX A330 legroom, I am similar height to you and have flown CX A330 many times in the last 12 months, my legs were never that close to the seat in front!
Are you sure it wasn't just a strangely configured row? Rather than all the rows like that? Just out of interest what row number was it?
I last flew CX A330 in May HKG-SIN in Y.

Still worth writing a complaint about your other stuff.

they have been reconfiguring the long haul 330s with extra Y seats and less PE seats since mid last year, there may be less room now down the back - agree though at the same height as the OP I have never found the CX Y seats to be restrictive.