Upgrading with points question

[Isochronous]

I'm flying SYD-MEL in a few weeks on a Monday night on the last flight out at 10pm or so. Booked in X using points. Can I use points to upgrade to J? I might finish in the City about 8-8.30 or so and was thinking it might be nice to have lounge access since I don't have QP membership right now. Am I likely to get much in the lounge if I upgrade (assuming the answer to the first question is yes)?

 

[froggerADL]

I'm flying SYD-MEL in a few weeks on a Monday night on the last flight out at 10pm or so. Booked in X using points. Can I use points to upgrade to J? I might finish in the City about 8-8.30 or so and was thinking it might be nice to have lounge access since I don't have QP membership right now. Am I likely to get much in the lounge if I upgrade (assuming the answer to the first question is yes)?

If it's a Classic Award the answer is No, you can't upgrade with points. Not sure about YASA but probably not.

 

[cove]

If there is a reasonable J pouts fare you could cancel and rebook in business class. It is easier to do this over the phone and pay the fee.

 

[ChrisFlyer]

Not sure about YASA but probably not.

YASA bookings can be upgraded with points as if it were a paid booking

 

[serfty]

YASA bookings can be upgraded with points as if it were a paid booking

[-]Unless the YASA books into a class other than X class, this is not the case.

A booking into X class is specifically excluded from both Domestic and International upgrades by the T&C's of the program.[/-]

'Restricted Fare' means
(a) for international travel, any Qantas international fare ticketed in E, N, O, P, Q, U, X or Z booking classes, which includes all Classic Awards, some Qantas & Jetstar Any Seat Awards and some Qantas Red e-Deals; and
(b) for domestic travel, any Qantas domestic Classic Award fare ticketed in the X booking class.

...
16.1.3 Flight Upgrades are not available when travelling on Restricted Fares (except for those Segments with a Qantas (QF) flight number booked in Z or U class on a Qantas international flight entered on the itinerary as part of a Qantas & Jetstar Any Seat Award), Codeshare Flights or Qantas & Partner Classic Awards

 

[opusman]

A booking into X class is specifically excluded from both Domestic and International upgrades by the T&C's of the program.

The T&C's do specifically state this applies to Classic Awards for domestic bookings, however - I would take that to mean a YASA is always upgradeable, irrespective of the booking class.

(side note: it's bloody confusing the way ASAs book into the award classes - things would be much simpler if they had their own class, or simply booked into a normal paid class).

 

[opusman]

Read the T&C extract you yourself posted

'Restricted Fare' means
(a) ...
(b) for domestic travel, any Qantas domestic Classic Award fare ticketed in the X booking class.

 

[oz_mark]

The T&C's do specifically state this applies to Classic Awards for domestic bookings, however - I would take that to mean a YASA is always upgradeable, irrespective of the booking class.

(side note: it's bloody confusing the way ASAs book into the award classes - things would be much simpler if they had their own class, or simply booked into a normal paid class).

An 'X' class fare cannot be upgraded regardless of whether it is a classic or any seat award.

 

[opusman]

An 'X' class fare cannot be upgraded regardless of whether it is a classic or any seat award.

That is not what the T&C say.

 

[serfty]

[-]

That is not what the T&C say.

16.1.3 specifically exempts the defined restricted fares classes U (Business class) and Z (Premium Economy) from being un-upgradeable when on an international flight entered on the itinerary as part of an Any Seat Award.

There is no such exemption for X class.

Nor for that matter is there an exemption for E, N, O, P & Q classes which are "restricted fares" on international fares. So if these are booked as part of an international YASA, they are not normally upgradeable either.

However, DOMESTIC bookings in E, N, O, P & Q classes are no longer "restricted fares" and can be upgraded.[/-]

 

[oz_mark]

That is not what the T&C say.

Since it's a domestic flight, why not pop online and try?

 

[medhead]

Based on what has been quoted here (I can't find this on the website). Only classic awards in X are restricted for domestic upgrades.

Furthermore, 16.1.3 specifically states upgrades can be requested for any seat awards.

 

[opusman]

[-]16.1.3 specifically exempts the defined restricted fares classes U (Business class) and Z (Premium Economy) from being un-upgradeable when on an international flight entered on the itinerary as part of an Any Seat Award.

There is no such exemption for X class.[/-]

You are not reading the T&Cs correctly.

16.1.3 says "Flight Upgrades are not available when travelling on Restricted Fares"

The definition of a Restricted Fare says:
"for domestic travel, any Qantas domestic Classic Award fare ticketed in the X booking class"

A YASA is not a Classic Award, therefore it is not a Restricted Fare. The booking class, and lack of an exemption thereof, is irrelevant. An Any Seat Award is not a restricted fare, and thus 16.1.3 does not apply.

I'm not quite sure how to state it any more clearly...


Edit: Furthermore, as medhead points out, 16.1.3 specifically states that Any Seat Awards can be upgraded...

 

[serfty]

Ok, referring back to the original email (June 23rd) this is not clear.

However, it is clear on this page Frequent Flyer - Using Points - Flight Upgrades - About Flight Upgrades

X class can indeed be upgraded domestically when it's an ASA.

You'll need to have an eligible paid and confirmed ticket, which may be a Qantas & Jetstar Any Seat Award, on a Qantas operated service with a QF flight number. Flight Upgrade Awards are not available on Qantas & Partner Classic Awards.

Qantas Australian Domestic Flights
Flight Upgrade Awards are available to request on Qantas Australian Domestic flights (with a QF flight number on your ticket) from:

• Discount Economy^ to Business
• Economy^ to Business

...

^ For domestic flights within Australia, Discount Economy includes classes E,N,O,Q,S, X and G and Economy includes Fully Flexible (classes Y, B) and Flexi Saver (classes H, K, L, M, V )

Until earlier this year, the Qantas website had the following definition for restricted fare:

'Restricted Fare' means any Qantas fare ticketed in E, N, O, P, Q, U, X or Z booking classes, which includes some Qantas Red e-Deals;

Note that it would generally be an inefficient way to use points in any case.

e.g. A one-way QFF YASA booking into X class, say MEL-SYD costs 8000 QFF points and earn 10 SC's and 1000 QFF points. To upgrade it would cost another 8000 points and would earn the same going by the original booking class rule.

If you can upgrade domestically, then you can directly book, so a JASA has better earning, costing 16000 QFF points and earns 40 SC's and 1250 QFF points.

 

[markis10]

Why would you want to upgrade an X class, if there is availability surely an JASA in the first place would be cheaper? I suppose some get tempted buts it likely to be as clear as anything at booking time!

 

[opusman]

One reason would be when doing an ODU in the QP. There might not be any JASA availability (at sane point levels) when booking, but there may be space in J on departure.

 

[medhead]

Edit: Furthermore, as medhead points out, 16.1.3 specifically states that Any Seat Awards can be upgraded...

I had another look and 16.1.3 isn't as clear as I first thought; it includes "in accordance with these terms and conditions" at the end. So if a domestic XASA was excluded elsewhere then the second sentence of 16.1.3 is nullified by that last bit.

 

[oz_mark]

One reason would be when doing an ODU in the QP. There might not be any JASA availability (at sane point levels) when booking, but there may be space in J on departure.

Although the OP would need to get into the QP to begin with - and that was the aim of the exercise. Best is to jump online and see.

At 10 pm I am not sure it is really worth it for lounge access.