V Australia discount economy FF point rates sucks compared to Qantas

[digitalbath]

I flew to USA 4 times last year

3 times on V Australia

Once on Qantas

For the MEL > LAX leg on V Australia I got 1983 points

For the MEL > LAX leg on Qantas I got 7923 points

The cost of the fares was about the same... $1100ish

I've got another 3 trips lined up this year and will be flying Qantas unless the 'velocity changes' include better earning rates

I would be almost gold if I flew Qantas damnit

Thoughts?

 

[trooper]

One must look at the relative value of the points earned.. not the raw amount... for all I know VA redemptions may be 25% of the cost in points of QF awards... so I wouldn't make assumptions without checking that out...

 

[anat0l]

For some Velocity redemptions they will be cheaper than QF redemptions.

Particularly with domestic where DJ sale fares have an effect on the points needed (i.e. when there are sales, you can burn less points than the normal gazetted rack rate).

Also, a VA return to the USA in J is cheaper than that of QF, although I haven't done the math to compare the exact economics.

Here's another case: VA discount J ("Deals") earn at 1.5 per mile; QF J only earns at 1.25 per mile (we're not factoring in any status bonuses here - that throws things out). Now in this case here, the tables have turned.

It's a horses for courses deal, but it pays to do your research.

 

[oz_mark]

The primary difference between the two programs is the calibration of point earning among the various fare levels in the programs. Compared to Velocity, QFF is more rewarding on the lower fare levels, as they give 1 point per dollar, regardless of your fare. Velocity have a multiplier which reduces the number of points on the discounted fares.

WHat you have discovered is the effect of the structural difference in the aerning tables in the two programs. Bottom line, is you need to work out which one is better for your situation.

 

[albatross710]

Bottom line, is you need to work out which one is better for your situation.

Can I extend the bottom line....

Bottom line, is you need to work out which one is better for your situation which will depend based upon how you want to redeem the points and your available earning methods.

 

[notzac]

For the MEL > LAX leg on V Australia I got 1983 points

Yep, those 25% earn rates for VA discount whY suck pretty bad. Certainly something I've coughed about before, and definitely something I hope to see fixed by the end of the year in the Velocity program refresh.

I'm sure JB and folk at DJ/VA are aware that there are plenty of folk required to travel lowest logical economy for work, and earning minimal mileage isn't going to make anyone happy -- it just doesn't make sense to me that this wouldn't get fixed.

One must look at the relative value of the points earned.. not the raw amount... for all I know VA redemptions may be 25% of the cost in points of QF awards... so I wouldn't make assumptions without checking that out...

They're about on par for burn rates -- i.e., equally ungenerous. IMHO, digitalbath has a valid complaint.

 

[digitalbath]

Yeah the redemption value is about the same... Virgin may me a 'little' better from memory... but within 20%

For domestic @ work we fly Qantas or Virgin (whatever is cheapest) and always the cheapest fare (except we go Blue Saver on Virgin - not GO!)

For international we get to choose the airline and flight as long as its within 25% or so of the cheapest on the same day (which Qantas normally is for USA)

Side by side I like V Australia better except on the A380 as I enjoy the 'history of oscar best picture section' (and more than 1 free drink)

But I would choose V Australia over a QF 747 any day if the earning rates were the same for me

 

[blackcat20]

Side by side I like V Australia better except on the A380 as I enjoy the 'history of oscar best picture section' (and more than 1 free drink)

Apparently the drinks are no longer limited to one.

 

[stryker]

Apparently the drinks are no longer limited to one.

Not sure why anyone (over age 35) in their right mind would fly VA (apart from wanting to look at a bit of T&A, which comes at a high price).

The Virgin Blue FF program is a waste of time and money IMHO. Even if you amass lots of points (at some high cost), what alliances do they have so you can use them sensibly? Not One World, Not * Alliance. Etihad, well that's maybe just a bit limiting, and if you don't like Etihad then what? It seems to come down to the fact that the young bucks like the party atmosphere on Virgin, so that's what they are paying for. Fair enough, but it's not for me.

All of my flying comes out of my own pocket, so I can be a bit more discerning (and please don't try and insinuate it's somehow at the taxpayer's expense, because it isn't). Thus, for about $10,000 a year I can be Gold with both Emirates and Qantas (as well as already being lifetime Gold with Star Alliance).

So why would someone like me want to have anything to do with Virgin?

 

[blackcat20]

Not sure why anyone (over age 35) in their right mind would fly VA (apart from wanting to look at a bit of T&A, which comes at a high price).

I'm under 35

Honestly, I dont fly a lot. Once, maybe twice a year. So the points issue isnt really a decider for me, its more about convenience and price. The only reason I chose QF over VA for my next trip was because the price was the same, but QF were direct to MEL and have a better luggage allowance for Y...

 

[markis10]

All of my flying comes out of my own pocket, so I can be a bit more discerning (and please don't try and insinuate it's somehow at the taxpayer's expense, because it isn't). Thus, for about $10,000 a year I can be Gold with both Emirates and Qantas (as well as already being lifetime Gold with Star Alliance).

So why would someone like me want to have anything to do with Virgin?

Hopefully the changes to the program that are coming (and probably still a work in progress) will address similar concerns from many, in the last year I have seen some good improvements with Velocity in terms of status recognition etc buts its hard to be patient.

 

[RB]

Not sure why anyone (over age 35) in their right mind would fly VA (apart from wanting to look at a bit of T&A, which comes at a high price).

The Virgin Blue FF program is a waste of time and money IMHO. Even if you amass lots of points (at some high cost), what alliances do they have so you can use them sensibly? Not One World, Not * Alliance. Etihad, well that's maybe just a bit limiting, and if you don't like Etihad then what? It seems to come down to the fact that the young bucks like the party atmosphere on Virgin, so that's what they are paying for. Fair enough, but it's not for me.

All of my flying comes out of my own pocket, so I can be a bit more discerning (and please don't try and insinuate it's somehow at the taxpayer's expense, because it isn't). Thus, for about $10,000 a year I can be Gold with both Emirates and Qantas (as well as already being lifetime Gold with Star Alliance).

So why would someone like me want to have anything to do with Virgin?

My flight in May 2010 Y+ was with VA because of the magic price I obtained compared to other prices I could see. T&A does not enter the equation ( assuming I have correctly interpreted what you mean by T&A)
Well I am certainly over 35( not sure why that is the magical figure) and as I have outlined in previous posts I am not a high volume flyer. I (perhaps to my detriment) choose the flights that serve me best at the time after I consider price, points earnt, flight schedule etc. I have no strong ties to any airline or their frequent flyer schemes but I look out for myself.
Unfortunately I see the post you have made is a tad confrontational and it seems to be an unfortunate trend that has been occurring lately on the board. I joined the site to learn, hope to contribute through my limited experiences and generally enjoy my visits here.
I read the original post believing that I may learn something from replies and most posts have aimed to be productive - maybe I have misunderstood your intent?

 

[scibo10]

While I applaud DJ for their initiatives of late, especially listening and communicating to members within this forum, I have to say that this issue has always been a bugbear of mine.

I'm sure JB and folk at DJ/VA are aware that there are plenty of folk required to travel lowest logical economy for work, and earning minimal mileage isn't going to make anyone happy

I can recall that when I brought this issue up in a previous thread (probably around 9 months ago now), I remember a response from DJ (I think it was from crazydave from memory) that said something along the lines that it was reasonable that points earn should be based on $ spend, so if you obtain an heavily discounted fare, you should only expect 0.25 points and status credits etc.

While this is clearly not an unreasonable statement in isolation, in the context of competing with QF's program, and more importantly, with QF frequently matching most of VA's heavily discount fares to the USA, it lacks any solid argument.

The 0.25 earn affects both points and status level, so as the OP outlined, he or she missed out on obtaining gold in QFF, but without having any real chance of obtaining gold and possibly even silver status with DJ either based on that earn rate. This could have negative effects on other areas of DJ's business. Let's say someone flies to the US twice a year. Assuming QF and VA's prices are similar, a reasonable person would choose QF based on 100% earn vs 25% (and assuming redemptions are pretty much the same, which they currently are). If that person then starts to chase status for the year, they may well divert all their future travel to QF for the remainder of the year if prices between QF and DJ/VA are similar. I have encountered this very scenario, and it is the reason all my travels to LAX in 2008, 2009 and 2010 have been with QF. I have not let this affect my domestic travel choice (courtesy of QF's departure from OOL), but for others living QF ports, this may not be the case.

I hope a change will be made to Velocity regarding this, so DJ can continue to take up the fight to QF. I'm sure a majority of AFF's readers will support DJ in their efforts to upscale, for no other reason than the in the interest of competition.