Velocity - Loss of points when reward cancelled

[Cruiser Elite]

we are going to be making quite a few announcements about changes to Velocity

I certainly hope one of the changes is to stop 'stealing' Velocity Points if a reward redemption booking has to be subsequently cancelled - currently if this happens points are forfeited and not re-deposited as they are with other REAL loyalty programs.

 

[antycbr]

Re: Velocity - Lifetime benefits

I certainly hope one of the changes is to stop 'stealing' Velocity Points if a reward redemption booking has to be subsequently cancelled - currently if this happens points are forfeited and not re-deposited as they are with other REAL loyalty programs.

I agree with you and it's a real plus of QF Classic Rewards at the moment.

I think the current set up is much closer to AnySeat Awards on QF where the points are converted into a ticket based on a particular notional point value, e.g. Go, Blue Saver, Flexible, Premium Economy - and then pick up the rules of that ticket which frequently include no-cancellation provisions.

 

[markis10]

Re: Velocity - Lifetime benefits

I agree with you and it's a real plus of QF Classic Rewards at the moment.

I think the current set up is much closer to AnySeat Awards on QF where the points are converted into a ticket based on a particular notional point value, e.g. Go, Blue Saver, Flexible, Premium Economy - and then pick up the rules of that ticket which frequently include no-cancellation provisions.

It should be mentioned that there is a 5K fee for that to occur, so its not like all the points come back, unlike JASAs.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

And SQ

And if I redeem a reward flight on SQ using KF points and subsequently cancel I forfeit 5,000pts I think or US$30 - neither here nor there is it?

But if I currently redeem a flight in 6 months MEL-LAX with VA using Velocity costs me 180,000pts - for whatever reason I cannot make this flight then I lose ALL 180,000pts - if that aint akin to highway roberry I do not know what is.

Pay for many flights with Virgin group -> earn Velocity points -> use reward points to redeem flight -> daughter is run over by drunk in car 2 days before flight -> cannot take flight -> bad luck Johnny - we are taking your points anyway.

Yep that sure is one good way to build customer loyalty.

 

[SeaWolf]

Re: And SQ

But if I currently redeem a flight in 6 months MEL-LAX with VA using Velocity costs me 180,000pts - for whatever reason I cannot make this flight then I lose ALL 180,000pts - if that aint akin to highway roberry I do not know what is.

It's the same rules as the ticket that it 'purchases'. QF has a classic reward ticket that comes with its own set of rules and conditions which happen to be quite flexible, but if you get an any-seat reward with QF then the same rules of that fare apply, meaning you'll get hit with penalties and fees if you change or cancel the ticket.
Velocity is much the same, except that there isn't a set of special reward fares, instead the rewards book into the same set of rules as the equivalent revenue ticket, like QF any-seat.

 

[markis10]

Re: And SQ

But if I currently redeem a flight in 6 months MEL-LAX with VA using Velocity costs me 180,000pts - for whatever reason I cannot make this flight then I lose ALL 180,000pts - if that aint akin to highway roberry I do not know what is..

You wont be paying 180K in the first place for MEL-LAX with Velocity its 94K return, Air Reward bookings (excluding redemption class), and any booking changes, cancellations or refunds, are governed by the Virgin Blue, Pacific Blue or Polynesian Blue (as relevant) fare rules and terms and conditions of carriage applicable to that booking.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Re: And SQ

You wont be paying 180K in the first place for MEL-LAX with Velocity its 94K return,

Business Class?

 

[markis10]

Re: And SQ

Business Class?

In that case its 188K you will loose as a redemption class booking, unless you go anyseat.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Re: And SQ

In that case its 188K you will loose as a redemption class booking, unless you go anyseat.

Yes - my points exactly

 

[jsd]

Re: Velocity - Lifetime benefits

I certainly hope one of the changes is to stop 'stealing' Velocity Points if a reward redemption booking has to be subsequently cancelled - currently if this happens points are forfeited and not re-deposited as they are with other REAL loyalty programs.

I've said this before and I'm going to say it again, Those are the terms and conditions that YOU agreed to when you signed up for the program, so that leaves you with 2 options:

1) Book any-seat awards that book into the equivalents of the paid fares, then you can do whatever you want within those rules.

2) Suck it up sunshine

Virgin Blue is not Qantas, they don't have to replicate every term, rule and condition to compete with them

 

[markis10]

Re: And SQ

Yes - my points exactly

Please make sure your posts are in context though, 180K is not accurate, 188K business class is when it comes to getting your message across and demonstrating the point. I agree it sucks that the flights are not flexible or refundable, its a part of the program that could be improved for sure.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Re: And SQ

Please make sure your posts are in context though, 180K is not accurate, 188K business class is when it comes to getting your message across and demonstrating the point.

And I could tell you that your 188K is not correct either - but I would not be that rude.

If I chose to pay higher $$$'s I can get Business Seat for 150K or thereabouts and pay $650 I think.

But that is not the point - the point is once you make a redemption and then for whatever reason you are unable to make the flight - you forfeit the points.

That is the point I was trying to get across - the accuracy of points involved say to 4 or 5% is neither here nor there - it is the 100% forfeiture of points that is the relevant point here so lets not lose focus on that point.

 

[markis10]

Re: And SQ

And I could tell you that your 188K is not correct either - but I would not be that rude.

If I chose to pay higher $$$'s I can get Business Seat for 150K or thereabouts and pay $650 I think..

LOL I am using the published points table for VA which is a good starting point:

 

[dk4]

Re: Velocity - Lifetime benefits

I've said this before and I'm going to say it again, Those are the terms and conditions that YOU agreed to when you signed up for the program...

Unless it is "unfair" in that "it is not reasonably necessary to protect the legitimate interests of the party who would be advantaged by the term"?

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Re: Velocity - Lifetime benefits

I've said this before and I'm going to say it again, Those are the terms and conditions that YOU agreed to when you signed up for the program, so that leaves you with 2 options:

1) Book any-seat awards that book into the equivalents of the paid fares, then you can do whatever you want within those rules.

2) Suck it up sunshine

Virgin Blue is not Qantas, they don't have to replicate every term, rule and condition to compete with them

JD we are all entitled to our views - and we all have the right to express them - I assume then that because this 'Point Forfeiture' clause in indeed in the T & C's that you agree that ir is fair and reasonable?

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Re: And SQ

And the point of this thread was to discuss lifetime benefits/status on Velocity.

100% correct - and I apologise to the OP if it appears I have hijacked the thread - but it was the Authenticated Company Rep from Virgin who stated some changes were coming to which I responded - again apologies to OP.

 

[markis10]

I have moved the posts about loss of points to a new thread as its a point that is important and needs to have its own thread!

 

[JohnK]

This is not my argument but it seems that the majority (again) are against the OP and I can sense some hostility as well. Sorry guys but you have this one totally wrong. How wrong could so many people be so wrong on an issue? Just side with the airline as their terms and conditions are quite clear. Who cares if they are fair or not?

I've said this before and I'm going to say it again, Those are the terms and conditions that YOU agreed to when you signed up for the program....

Suck it up? That is not nice at all!

Who cares about terms and conditions? They are only ever there to help out the airline anyway. When have terms and conditions ever helped the customer?

The terms and conditions are clearly wrong. Every FF program I know refunds FF points if the award is cancelled for some reason. But no, not Velocity.

This is the airline and FF program that everyone wants to escape to so they can get away from Qantas. Yeah right....

 

[oz_mark]

Re: Velocity - Lifetime benefits

I've said this before and I'm going to say it again, Those are the terms and conditions that YOU agreed to when you signed up for the program, so that leaves you with 2 options:

1) Book any-seat awards that book into the equivalents of the paid fares, then you can do whatever you want within those rules.

2) Suck it up sunshine

Virgin Blue is not Qantas, they don't have to replicate every term, rule and condition to compete with them

The thing is that YOU have no ability to negotiate any of the terms you do not like. While I accept the need for an administration fee in the case of a cancellation, I think the total loss of points if you cancel is unfair.

 

[jsd]

Unless it is "unfair" in that "it is not reasonably necessary to protect the legitimate interests of the party who would be advantaged by the term"?

JD we are all entitled to our views - and we all have the right to express them - I assume then that because this 'Point Forfeiture' clause in indeed in the T & C's that you agree that ir is fair and reasonable?

Suck it up? That is not nice at all!

It appears that I may have caused some offence to some other members with my post, I apologize to Cruiser Elite and anyone else that I may have offended

I'm not saying that a total loss of points if for some reason you need to cancel your booking is fair, I just find it very hard to not side with Virgin as they have treated me very well over the last few years.

In regards to JohnK's post, I think some kind of admin fee and a refund would be a better idea, I suppose I'm just too paranoid that some of the features that make the Velocity program a standout for me will change drastically (Like $ based SCs as opposed to distance based) :-|


Again, sorry to anyone that took offence to my earlier post.

Josh