Velocity points now worthless in 2023 (extreme stealth devaluation)

[mingzie]

Hello all,

Looks like velocity points are almost worthless now and have had a massive stealth devaluation. There is almost zero award availability on almost all routes and there is single seat dripfeeding (only one seat available on all routes)

This is a MASSIVE devaluation compared to even last year.

Looks like this is a cheeky stealth change that has made this program utterly worthless :/

Can't believe I'm saying this but I'm actually finding use for my Qantas points, and I used to think Qantas was a joke.

What happened Virgin?

I can't find single international J seat to SIN for ANY date despite massive KF availability.

I can't even book a domestic flight in J for me and my partner.

Anyone noticed and outraged about this? This is a very recent stealth devaluation.



How the heck did we go from 65k J SQ redemptions to only Premium Economy available for more?

If this is a permanent change, I now regret not spending and collecting all of these velocity points.

The value has dropped in half!!

 

[blacksultan]

What about Bali - Melbourne ? There is usually lot of availability .

 

[mingzie]

What about Bali - Melbourne ? There is usually lot of availability .

Cannot find any on this route either.. just only one or two months ago availability for all routes was amazing. Did Virgin just pull the rug on us velocity collectors?

I flew in Dec for 65k in J with amazing availability..

I was also available to find great domestic J availability.

Now absolutely everything is gone...

 

[Happy Dude]

I can't find single international J seat to SIN for ANY date despite massive KF availability.

Then transfer your points to KF and book from there?

There were some issues with partner redemptions earlier this year but since January, I've made the following redemptions for 4 pax this year starting at Easter:

MEL-SFO in Y
DCA-LHR in Y
AUH-NRT in J
HAN-MEL in Y

Had no issues finding availability using VFF points at reward rates which I deemed to be good value (without historical context or much experience to evaluate worth), so no outrage here I'm afraid. The same could not be said for QFF.

 

[Bell21]

I'm also surprised by this --- I recently flew in J using VFF points on Qatar to Poland and flew back from Greece, and only booked the flights a few weeks prior to travel

 

[mingzie]

Then transfer your points to KF and book from there?

There were some issues with partner redemptions earlier this year but since January, I've made the following redemptions for 4 pax this year starting at Easter:

MEL-SFO in Y
DCA-LHR in Y
AUH-NRT in J
HAN-MEL in Y

Had no issues finding availability using VFF points at reward rates which I deemed to be good value (without historical context or much experience to evaluate worth), so no outrage here I'm afraid. The same could not be said for QFF.

Yes, I flew recently too. I am saying this is a very recent change. I only first noticed it a couple weeks ago (but not sure when it started)

On the other side it is also a very recent change for QFF. A decent chunk of award availability came in.

This has not been the case for the last 10+ years. Velocity has been absolutely amazing for redemptions for my routes with reasonable prices and good availability.

So I'm wondering if people have noticed this crazy devaluation.. I have always been an avid velocity points collector / user.

 

[mingzie]

I'm also surprised by this --- I recently flew in J using VFF points on Qatar to Poland and flew back from Greece, and only booked the flights a few weeks prior to travel

Thanks for the datapoint. Do you mean to say that you have noticed the changes, or you haven't noticed them? Thanks.

 

[Bell21]

Sorry - yes, I was saying I was surprised by your post, as hadn't observed any changes, but it was about a month ago I made this booking --- incidentally, I was just quite amused, at the time, that I could generally find similar reward flights on Qatar flights using either VFF or QFF points...

 

[mingzie]

Also just noting that I am only talking about J rewards. Economy and Premium Economy are still there and seem to be normal.

J rewards seem to have fallen off a cliff and disappeared completely.

One partner in particular (SQ) is pretty much dead as of this month. Only giving Premium Economy seats. This was a sudden disappearance rather than it getting booked out due to being busy.

 

[mingzie]

This is also another extremely interesting datapoint. I have just checked and the domestic J seats are now available in groups of 2 (you can check too)

If you check the other dripfeed thread, it was 1 (and I also confirmed it was 1)

There is def someone behind the scenes modifying this who has just switched it to 2.

Before these changes you could book up to 4

 

[Digicola]

Also just noting that I am only talking about J rewards. Economy and Premium Economy are still there and seem to be normal.

J rewards seem to have fallen off a cliff and disappeared completely.

One partner in particular (SQ) is pretty much dead as of this month. Only giving Premium Economy seats. This was a sudden disappearance rather than it getting booked out due to being busy.

That and the increase in redemption costs, and the increase in per sector fees last year. The rug is being pulled little by little…

 

[Happy Dude]

Also just noting that I am only talking about J rewards. Economy and Premium Economy are still there and seem to be normal.

J rewards seem to have fallen off a cliff and disappeared completely.

One partner in particular (SQ) is pretty much dead as of this month. Only giving Premium Economy seats. This was a sudden disappearance rather than it getting booked out due to being busy.

This is also another extremely interesting datapoint. I have just checked and the domestic J seats are now available in groups of 2 (you can check too)

If you check the other dripfeed thread, it was 1 (and I also confirmed it was 1)

There is def someone behind the scenes modifying this who has just switched it to 2.

Before these changes you could book up to 4

Nice conspiracy but I'd wager that the reason for the lack of availability is due to demand. I'm not seeing any devaluation though, extreme or otherwise, beyond the usual 'more points over time' changes. Just seems like no-one holidays in Australia anymore and every Tom Dick and Harry plays the points game now so lots of piranhas in the tank. Hotel prices are also reflecting demand.

I can't offer any theories re the drip feeding experiences but in my recent CBR-OOL trip the J cabin was chockers for SYD-OOL leg for the day (my CBR-SYD flight was cancelled and there were no J seats for that leg for the rest of the day, we ended up being transferred to a direct CBR-OOL flight but had to fly in Y as there were no J seats available on those flights either). Then the return OOL-MEL-CBR legs were full in J too, bar one seat MEL-CBR. So plenty of demand for J seats too, apparently.

 

[Brissy1]

This is also another extremely interesting datapoint. I have just checked and the domestic J seats are now available in groups of 2 (you can check too)

If you check the other dripfeed thread, it was 1 (and I also confirmed it was 1)

There is def someone behind the scenes modifying this who has just switched it to 2.

Before these changes you could book up to 4

You say "groups of 2" but I presume a search for a single on the same flight will show available?

 

[mingzie]

Nice conspiracy but I'd wager that the reason for the lack of availability is due to demand. I'm not seeing any devaluation though, extreme or otherwise, beyond the usual 'more points over time' changes. Just seems like no-one holidays in Australia anymore and every Tom Dick and Harry plays the points game now so lots of piranhas in the tank. Hotel prices are also reflecting demand.

I can't offer any theories re the drip feeding experiences but in my recent CBR-OOL trip the J cabin was chockers for SYD-OOL leg for the day (my CBR-SYD flight was cancelled and there were no J seats for that leg for the rest of the day, we ended up being transferred to a direct CBR-OOL flight but had to fly in Y as there were no J seats available on those flights either). Then the return OOL-MEL-CBR legs were full in J too, bar one seat MEL-CBR. So plenty of demand for J seats too, apparently.

I didn't realize 4 other people confirming the same thing in the other thread was "a nice conspiracy".

And no, it has nothing to do with availability or demand (and even if it did, since the availability of seats on these flights are the same as normal, that's still a devaluation). The number of seats available on these flights are the same as they've always been. I can even book the biz flights for $350 cash; cheap price hasn't changed. It is an artificial limitation that was only recently introduced. Whether this devaluation was introduced because of a perceived increase in demand doesn't stop it from being a devaluation, especially when the flights in question are literally almost 100% empty this far out in J (say, to SIN) :/

This partnership with SQ has just recently dissipated or disappeared. Again, I am not the only one with this issue as you can see other independent reports in the other recent threads (see the dripfeeding thread as well as the "how should I spend 600k" thread).

This is a devaluation regardless and I don't know why I'm being gaslighted over it :/ anecdotal corporate simping doesn't change any of the facts about seat availability re: reports in the other threads nor does it mean a devaluation is not a devaluation

Post automatically merged: Mar 31, 2023

You say "groups of 2" but I presume a search for a single on the same flight will show available?

Yes. All flights are now limited to a MAX of 2. This change was done last night as we were posting.

So someone on the VA side has specifically been tampering with this. This is not a conspiracy, nor does it have to do with current availability (otherwise why would flights instantly reenter the same inventory).

The SQ thing is not a conspiracy either. Try finding a single flight to or from Syd/Mel/Ade to J within the next entire year. These are flights with full J seat availability on SQ who have had their availability just completely disappear :/

It's funny how people can just brush these devaluations off and gaslight others who do notice it though.

 

[Happy Dude]

Not gaslighting you, whatever that is, just disagreeing with you. Your original assertion was that you couldn't book J seats like you used to and that amounted to a massive and extreme devaluation of Velocity points to the point of being worthless. I'm saying that I have not experienced that and have made several VFF reward bookings, some in J albeit prior to your observations. Hence, I disagree with assertion.

Many share your frustration at not being able to use their points in the way they wish and usually they post on pages like this or Facebook saying the whole program is hopeless etc.

The conspiracy part relates to your claim that someone at VFF is monitoring these posts and have, consequently, decided now to release more J seats. I'm suggesting that the reason more seats have become available is something less far-fetched.

As I said, I don't know if/why VA is drip feeding seats, but if they are it's a poor practice but appears to be common across the industry. Pretty sure they could do such a thing in response to high demand though.

 

[mingzie]

Not gaslighting you, whatever that is, just disagreeing with you. Your original assertion was that you couldn't book J seats like you used to and that amounted to a massive and extreme devaluation of Velocity points to the point of being worthless. I'm saying that I have not experienced that and have made several VFF reward bookings, some in J albeit prior to your observations. Hence, I disagree with assertion.

Many share your frustration at not being able to use their points in the way they wish and usually they post on pages like this or Facebook saying the whole program is hopeless etc.

The conspiracy part relates to your claim that someone at VFF is monitoring these posts and have, consequently, decided now to release more J seats. I'm suggesting that the reason more seats have become available is something less far-fetched.

As I said, I don't know if/why VA is drip feeding seats, but if they are it's a poor practice but appears to be common across the industry. Pretty sure they could do such a thing in response to high demand though.

Yes, you are gaslighting me.

I don't care if it was done "in response to high demand", because the number of seat availabilities are still the same / max. This means there was a specific devaluation change. Again, I don't care about how this is painted or spun to seem normal or positive.

The facts are this is a sudden change and devaluation. There were 10 seats on a J flight available before, there are still 10 now. The difference is the DEVALUATION in how much of these are available as reward seats. I don't care WHY this change was done, it doesn't change the fact one iota that it was devalued.

Take SQ as an example, the entire flights have had almost zero (actually, it is zero) seats available. You can't even find one to or from anywhere but Perth even one year out. This partnership has been gutted.

Again, I do not care what airline x does. I only care what Virgin changed or devalued.

You keep talking like I'm one of the normal people on Facebook who has no idea of how points work, when I'm not. I am an extremely astute velocity points user who has been redeeming millions and millions of points over the last 10-20 years so I am sensitive to devaluations such as these.

 

[Happy Dude]

@mingzie so are you saying that the VA-SQ relationship has changed for the worse which is a devaluation?

I'm confused when you say "The facts are this is a sudden change and devaluation. There were 10 seats on a J flight available before, there are still 10 now." That doesn't sound like a change at all?

 

[mingzie]

@mingzie so are you saying that the VA-SQ relationship has changed for the worse which is a devaluation?

I'm confused when you say "The facts are this is a sudden change and devaluation. There were 10 seats on a J flight available before, there are still 10 now." That doesn't sound like a change at all?

Re: SQ yes, this partnership appears to have been gutted in terms of SQ now offering almost zero seats. As one of their main partners, this is a massive devaluation on velocity points. I fly SQ routes about 7-8 times a year in J. Again, I do not care what KF are offering their redemptions for. I am aware there is a 1.55:1 - Not only is the transfer a bad rate but the KF has always cost more than the Velocity equivalent despite KF points being more valuable per point. I don't think this is limited to SQ though, I am also finding barely any J availability on metal despite the seats being available to buy.

The SQ is simply one example of many that I am sure about since I fly the route return 8 times a year in J. It is not just limited to SQ. It also doesn't matter that these flights are available on KF, it doesn't change that the velocity redemptions were devalued

oh geez, I'm not sure if you understand. This is WHY it is a devaluation. Because there are 10 seats in total on J available to book. On Monday, only one of them was available to book as a redemption. Now, 2 is the max at any given time.

just before this change you were able to book 4, even given the same number of seats available.

if the variable of number of seats available actually changed it would reflect a change in demand and thus not be a devaluation. alas, the number of seats on a flight remains at 10, and the number of possible redemptions has decreased.

 

[ols]

Yes, you are gaslighting me.

Is that you Harrison

 

[Scr77]

SQ availability via VFF does seem odd. There’s plenty of Saver availability with KrisFlyer that doesn’t seem to show in VA nowadays.