Virgin Australia and Air NZ to Form New Partnership

[AustraliaPoochie]

Its not on all routes tho, only Aus - NZ.
So, if you for eg, wanted or needed to get to Canada/US, its still better to fly AC/UA.

 

[HS-TQE]

Its not on all routes tho, only Aus - NZ.
So, if you for eg, wanted or needed to get to Canada/US, its still better to fly AC/UA.

And it's not likely to extend to the USA routes in the foreseeable future etc in the future when VA has UA and AC.

 

[simmomelb]

This might be of interest to some: “This proposed code sharing arrangement has the potential to increase ticketing choices for Australians travelling to New Zealand, and provide Velocity frequent flyer program benefits and international lounge access for eligible Virgin Australia customers,” ACCC Deputy Chair Mick Keogh said.

 

[Happy Dude]

I'm interested. Now that my QR status via VA status match is not OWE, any trans-tasman trip can be VA earners both ways, not just on the way back. Provided they sort out lounges/benefits.

 

[Mwenenzi]

This might be of interest to some: “This proposed code sharing arrangement has the potential to increase ticketing choices for Australians travelling to New Zealand, and provide Velocity frequent flyer program benefits and international lounge access for eligible Virgin Australia customers,” ACCC Deputy Chair Mick Keogh said.

VA could have already provided lounge access, for eligible passengers, for its (few) international flights if it wanted to.
Just a simple commercial agreement with an air side lounge operator.

 

[simmomelb]

VA could have already provided lounge access, for eligible passengers, for its (few) international flights if it wanted to.
Just a simple commercial agreement with an air side lounge operator.

Of course, this come down to cost, but this changes everything, as it's no doubt, far more feasible this way.

 

[HS-TQE]

This might be of interest to some: “This proposed code sharing arrangement has the potential to increase ticketing choices for Australians travelling to New Zealand, and provide Velocity frequent flyer program benefits and international lounge access for eligible Virgin Australia customers,” ACCC Deputy Chair Mick Keogh said.

IIRC this was stated in the initial submission. VA proposes to buy seats and 'lounge access' for eligible J customers on NZ operated services to AKL, CHC and WLG. This does not extend to VA's own services to ZQN and other destinations.

If anything this is also good for NZ and QF as it eliminates a (former) competitor as well as NZ getting commision from VA for reselling NZ seats under the VA code under the one way (unilateral) codeshare arrangement.

 

[The-Aviator]

Great news! Always enjoyed the Air NZ service back when these two were friends, will be nice to visit their lounges once again. Hopefully it's up and running soon.

 

[RSVKanga]

Considering QF/NZ still has their domestic codeshare partnership to run until NW24/25 at the earliest.

As far as I'm aware, this deal is indefinite and does not require ACCC approval/re-approval as it is a domestic partnership only.

 

[roby]

As far as I'm aware, this deal is indefinite and does not require ACCC approval/re-approval as it is a domestic partnership only.

Yes, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a contract between QF and NZ with an end date. The current deal benefits very few of NZ travellers. I don't see them keeping both relationships active in the long run.

 

[RSVKanga]

I don't see them keeping both relationships active in the long run.

Why wouldn’t they? If NZ decides to withdraw, they’ll be the losers as QF may ramp up NZ domestic Jetstar flights or bring Jetconnect back from the dead which will only affect AirNZ’s domestic revenue. NZ have an ~85% domestic monopoly, and QF is currently supporting their monopoly with this indefinite codeshare. Why would NZ let go of this?

Also, it does benefit plenty of Kiwi travellers who have Canberra, Darwin, Hobart or one of the dozens of regional Australian cities as their final destination. VA don’t fly to most of those smaller cities covered in the QF-NZ codeshare.

 

[henrus]

If NZ decides to withdraw, they’ll be the losers as QF may ramp up NZ domestic Jetstar flights or bring Jetconnect back from the dead which will only affect AirNZ’s domestic revenue.

If anything I see it being Qantas that would pull out. References to Air New Zealand on the award table no longer exist and there is a shrinking number of Air NZ operated domestic flights that carry a QF code (not to mention with a very high price).

 

[roby]

Why wouldn’t they? If NZ decides to withdraw, they’ll be the losers as QF may ramp up NZ domestic Jetstar flights or bring Jetconnect back from the dead which will only affect AirNZ’s domestic revenue. NZ have an ~85% domestic monopoly, and QF is currently supporting their monopoly with this indefinite codeshare. Why would NZ let go of this?

Also, it does benefit plenty of Kiwi travellers who have Canberra, Darwin, Hobart or one of the dozens of regional Australian cities as their final destination. VA don’t fly to most of those smaller cities covered in the QF-NZ codeshare.

Maybe because the QF partnership is a dead end whereas a full blown VA relationship can cover everything including their long haul network which is under enormous pressure. NZ need to tap into the Velocity membership base that they can't with QFF.

Also I doubt QF really care about anything other than NZ trunk routes. They don't need NZ.

 

[HS-TQE]

Maybe because the QF partnership is a dead end whereas a full blown VA relationship can cover everything including their long haul network which is under enormous pressure. NZ need to tap into the Velocity membership base that they can't with QFF.

Also I doubt QF really care about anything other than NZ trunk routes. They don't need NZ.

Can't see VA sending the bulk of USA/Canada passengers through AKL when they have the UA partnership and to a lesser extent AC from mainland Australia.

Any VA passengers going through NZ on the way to North America are likely to be very low yield, which would not assist NZ much at all as they would likely be getting VA's "low yield" scraps whilst the medium/high yield leisure will continue to catch the non-stops on UA/AC.

 

[RSVKanga]

If anything I see it being Qantas that would pull out.

Not sure if QF will want to voluntarily reduce its partner airlines in an era where its existing partnerships are being increasingly obstructed or infiltrated. It’s not just QR’s behaviour in OW affecting QF’s relations with its partners, but the ACCC also denying/ending QF partnerships with China Eastern, Cathay Pacific and Japan Airlines in recent years. QF would want to keep as many partners as possible, big or small. This partnership is very beneficial for QF in that the ACCC has no role that determines the right for these codeshares to exist.

full blown VA relationship

May not get past ACCC approval. This current proposal is a one-way modest codeshare that affects VA customers only, and doesn’t even apply to VA’s own services to ZQN. A far cry from the previous 2010-2018 JV. AirNZ might not even mention VA on its website as they are not adding their code onto VA flights both across the Tasman and within Australia.

 

[roby]

May not get past ACCC approval. This current proposal is a one-way modest codeshare that affects VA customers only, and doesn’t even apply to VA’s own services to ZQN. A far cry from the previous 2010-2018 JV. AirNZ might not even mention VA on its website as they are not adding their code onto VA flights both across the Tasman and within Australia.

Seems that ACCC has already believed VA has no intention to re-start any other NZ services so perhaps it's not difficult to secure another approval? They are not competitors other than ZQN. I also don't think an FFP tie up needs an approval. For instance, many here still dream about VA in *A.

NZ needs a loyalty proposition in Australia if they need to grow North America and still have the ambition for South America down the road. Airpoints is not competitive and Velocity is the best they could get.

 

[RSVKanga]

perhaps it's not difficult to secure another approval?

Yes, the ACCC has approved this current proposal. However a proposal for bringing back a full blown JV might not get past.

 

[HS-TQE]

Seems that ACCC has already believed VA has no intention to re-start any other NZ services so perhaps it's not difficult to secure another approval? They are not competitors other than ZQN. I also don't think an FFP tie up needs an approval. For instance, many here still dream about VA in *A.

NZ needs a loyalty proposition in Australia if they need to grow North America and still have the ambition for South America down the road. Airpoints is not competitive and Velocity is the best they could get.

They'll need to "buy" into VA (again), which is very unlikely anytime soon, if NZ are going to "force" their local JV partner UA out as VA's current major partner for Australia-USA traffic.

I don't see that happening anytime soon. Also, most of Velocity's traffic will want the non-stops over going via NZ, which that traffic is largely low yield and/or VFR. Low yielding VA passengers on NZ's North America flights isn't going to improve NZ's bottom line much.

 

[justinbrett]

How many times are we going to go round this buoy? These arguments have been rehashed many times.

NZ have absolutely nothing to gain swapping QF for VA. Right now they get the best of both worlds - VA bringing a few pax for the international flights, and QF bringing a bunch of pax for its domestic flights.

NZ aren’t on the airline earning table because you can’t earn points flying NZ, only QF codeshare, in which case it follows QF earn rates and classes.

The talk that VA needs to come to rescue NZ international is laughable.

 

[encryptededdy]

Per the press release ACCC proposes authorisation for Virgin Australia to sell and market Air New Zealand’s trans-Tasman services

Currently Virgin Australia operates its own services on routes between Queenstown and Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane. The proposed arrangements do not apply to these routes nor to any routes where Virgin Australia commences operating its own services in competition with Air New Zealand.

(emphasis mine)

I guess it depends how much value VA derives from these NZ codeshares, but it sounds like if, for instance, VA launches a daily SYD-AKL flight, then they would have to cease codesharing NZ's SYD-AKL, which I'd imagine would always result in a reduction in choices for Velocity customers. Wouldn't this be a disincentive for VA to launch these routes (not that I think they're considering launching anything other than ZQN at this time).

and yet the ACCC says

“On current information, we also consider that the code sharing arrangements do not materially reduce Virgin Australia's incentive to operate its own services on other trans-Tasman routes.”

(also emphasis mine)

I would be inclined to think that this isn't true?