Virgin Australia flights to Doha now on sale

[levelnine]

Swaps almost never happen on the Australian routes.

 

[WilsonM]

I guess from the tables, they've aligned to the higher QR partner chart coming 21 January.

But a couple of interesting notes on their page, right below the new award chart:

"When a single booking includes: multiple flights with a break in the journey (at least 24 hours between flights); a change in cabin class; multiple airlines on one itinerary; or a VA domestic connection to a VA long haul flight; the number of Points required for Reward Seats will be higher."

Will Qatar be counted as on the same chart as Virgin Australia? From an FAQ on the same page: "A Reward Seat is also calculated on a per sector basis when there is a change in class of travel within the journey or when combining a journey that includes airlines located in different Reward Seat Points tables."

Yes, VA Long Haul and QR are the same cost, but the tables are under a different heading. You can't combine SQ and QR, even though they're on the same table...

Also hilariously, if you take a VA domestic flight before a VA long-haul international one, it'll be counted per sector, not combined. Even though they're the same airline, although I guess you can also argue they're not - VA International is technically different I guess?

From the chart, it seems obvious that they're allowing QR to be combined with VA. But all I'm pointing out is that the T's and C's say something different, and it'd be pretty crucial to get the wording correct on this.

 

[bernardblack]

Yes, this seems odd to me too.

The general thrust of the new chart seems to be that they intend to offer single through award bookings [Aust port]<>DOH<>[Euro/Gulf port] and vice versa. But as far as I understand, VA prime codes will only be between Australia and Doha. And award seats are almost always sold on prime codes only.

So will this actually work as a joint booking on a VA code then a QR code (or vice versa)? Or will they offer award seats on VA codeshare flight numbers beyond Doha?

Also: The dollar copay table has only a single row, for 4000+ miles. If shorter sectors are free, it should mean that you only need to pay one sector between Australia and Qatar, and almost anywhere in Europe is no additional surcharge? (Obvs if you route through Doha to the Americas or maybe deep Africa, you'll hit a second surcharge.)

 

[Layslow]

Just to be clear there will be (eventually) 28 new weekly flights between Australia and Doha. This does not translate into any new flights onto London/Europe etc, so the excess capacity is literally to a place no one wants to visit. So don't expect $5K business class airfares anytime soon to Europe as they will continue to be sold at a premium. So Qatar's desperation for extra capacity into Australia could prove to be a pyrrhic victory. Enjoy.

 

[levelnine]

Just to be clear there will be (eventually) 28 new weekly flights between Australia and Doha. This does not translate into any new flights onto London/Europe etc, so the excess capacity is literally to a place no one wants to visit. So don't expect $5K business class airfares anytime soon to Europe as they will continue to be sold at a premium. So Qatar's desperation for extra capacity into Australia could prove to be a pyrrhic victory. Enjoy.

QR is not short of any capacity into Europe.

Have a search for award availability from DOH to Europe on Virgin Australia. It is mountainous.

The crunch point is Australia to DOH.

 

[Layslow]

QR is not short of any capacity into Europe.

Have a search for award availability from DOH to Europe on Virgin Australia. It is mountainous.

The crunch point is Australia to DOH.

If there is so much capacity why don't the (announced) introductory fares reflect that and even by Jayne Hrdlicka's comments today about $10K lead in business class tickets to London doesn't reflect that either....

 

[jase05]

Just to be clear there will be (eventually) 28 new weekly flights between Australia and Doha. This does not translate into any new flights onto London/Europe etc, so the excess capacity is literally to a place no one wants to visit. So don't expect $5K business class airfares anytime soon to Europe as they will continue to be sold at a premium. So Qatar's desperation for extra capacity into Australia could prove to be a pyrrhic victory. Enjoy.

We love Qatar. Have visited a couple of times per year for the last few years and always stay a minimum of 2 nights but preferably longer.
From next year we will be aiming to go several times just for a 3-4 day break. From Doha there is often tons of award availability to Asia and Europe so plenty of options to go elsewhere if you please

 

[levelnine]

If there is so much capacity why don't the (announced) introductory fares reflect that and even by Jayne Hrdlicka's comments today about $10K lead in business class tickets to London doesn't reflect that either....

Judging by their press release, they're prioritising economy fares as part of their launch sale. I'm sure we'll see a business class sale soon.

 

[Layslow]

Judging by their press release, they're prioritising economy fares as part of their launch sale. I'm sure we'll see a business class sale soon.

Well that was the CEO on radio today so.... They ain't going to be cheap...

 

[levelnine]

Well that was the CEO on radio today so.... They ain't going to be cheap...

Additional capacity into Australia certainly isn't going to lead to higher fares, so there's no way that Australians lose from this arrangement.

 

[WilsonM]

If there is so much capacity why don't the (announced) introductory fares reflect that and even by Jayne Hrdlicka's comments today about $10K lead in business class tickets to London doesn't reflect that either....

They're adding 1176 Business Class seats per week to the market. In the context of Australia-Europe, this really isn't that much to expect anything drastic. They'll compete against all the top-tier airlines - it'll mean airlines such as EK or SQ can't push fares higher, but they'll keep fares the same.

10k for J to LHR, for example, isn't really out of line with what airlines mentioned above charge. They're selling it for the most popular time of the year for this market, so why would they go drastically lower? VA is not a new entrant to the Australian market, they're an extremely well established brand already. Yeah, they haven't done Australia to Europe before, but its not like they have to get their name out there - media outlets will do most of the advertising for them.

Downward pressure will be more on the Economy side - people are more price-conscious, and less concerned about quality of product. Plus the 77Ws add over 7x the amount of Y compared to J.

 

[justinbrett]

Just to be clear there will be (eventually) 28 new weekly flights between Australia and Doha. This does not translate into any new flights onto London/Europe etc, so the excess capacity is literally to a place no one wants to visit. So don't expect $5K business class airfares anytime soon to Europe as they will continue to be sold at a premium. So Qatar's desperation for extra capacity into Australia could prove to be a pyrrhic victory. Enjoy.

Even if there is no onwards capacity added, QR will make more money selling flights to premium destinations (LHR, CDG etc) to Australian pax instead of cheaper origins like India, Thailand or Africa.

However adding capacity doesn’t necessarily mean cheaper fares. If VA/QR can fill their additional seats without dropping fares from their current levels, they don’t go any cheaper. For example, QF often sells at a price premium because they know they can fill their aircraft with people willing to spend the extra.

I’m not saying fares won’t drop but there’s other more complex factors at work as well.

Now if EK pull out the big guns with competitive pricing and additional capacity then we might see some good results.

 

[RooFlyer]

I’ve just had my travel agent price a business class fare on Virgin through Doha to CDG and it’s not bad but she thinks it equates to QR’s lowest class business fare which would not include lounge access.

So Qatar's desperation for extra capacity into Australia could prove to be a pyrrhic victory. Enjoy.

We will!!

QR is not short of any capacity into Europe.

Have a search for award availability from DOH to Europe on Virgin Australia. It is mountainous.

The crunch point is Australia to DOH.

Absolutely. I recently looked for and got Qatar award business seats through Velocity through to Europe and there were choices of multiple flights a day to and from places like Barcelona, let alone the larger cities.

Got the outbound ex BNE and inbound through to MEL.

And as you know, but others seem to be oblivious to the extra VA flights will help alleviate the crunch point of getting out of Australia either with award Business seats or reasonably priced revenue business seats.

We love Qatar. Have visited a couple of times per year for the last few years and always stay a minimum of 2 nights but preferably longer.

There are none so blind as those that will not see (or fly nothing but Qantas).

 

[henrus]

I’ve just had my travel agent price a business class fare on Virgin through Doha to CDG and it’s not bad but she thinks it equates to QR’s lowest class business fare which would not include lounge access.

I’d be shocked if this is the case, comparing VA and QR booking classes probably isn’t best.

 

[RooFlyer]

I’d be shocked if this is the case, comparing VA and QR booking classes probably isn’t best.

She wasn't certain, looking into it again tomorrow. I only got them to price it as a curiosity - most likely I'll do what I've done before, SQ award flights to/from SIN (using transferred VFF points), then QR revenue onto Europe. Was $5.1K in their middle business fare class SIN- CDG - SIN

 

[SYD]

She wasn't certain, looking into it again tomorrow. I only got them to price it as a curiosity - most likely I'll do what I've done before, SQ award flights to/from SIN (using transferred VFF points), then QR revenue onto Europe. Was $5.1K in their middle business fare class SIN- CDG - SIN

I might be wrong, but only QR sell their “Lite” fares with QR codes. Since VA currently don’t have Business “Lite” fares it ought to book into something higher than “P” class equivalent?

 

[drron]

I wouldn't be hanging out for cheap VA J awards on the VA flight numbers. I was looking at my usual BNE - SIN awards in J tonight and there is a big change. Usually at least 3 SQ flights out of BNE at the cheapest cost -67000 VA points.
But now only 1 or 2 of the SQ flights each day plus the VA codeshares. But look at the differential. This is for 28/10/25.

VA 5342 at 1125. Y-102400 points + $142.43 J-642000 points + $142.43.

SQ246 at 1125. Y-29000 points + $158.13 J-67000 points + $252.33.

That was the same figures for the route out to November 8th. Who would book the VA codeshare. this also was for choosing 1 or 2 pax.

 

[WilsonM]

VA 5342 at 1125. Y-102400 points + $142.43 J-642000 points + $142.43.

SQ246 at 1125. Y-29000 points + $158.13 J-67000 points + $252.33.

Those figures are for Pay with Points on VA codeshares, while the DOH flights are actually just VA flight numbers - you'll be able to book VA flight numbers as reward seats. If there are reward seats on these flights, they'll be priced at the 56k/119.5k for Y and J, respectively (less for exPER). But like with QF, people will get caught out with the Pay with points options.

 

[BrianQQ]

Actually horrid:

• flight pricing mostly the same as direct flights, except for the fact I have to layover in Doha, sometimes for as long as 18 hours.
• no access to lounges as Velocity Gold/Platinum in CDG: correct me if I'm wrong
• flights not upgradeable with points
• the status credit table is VA actually taking the piss

 

[justinbrett]

In any case these fares aren’t new, VA has been marketing fares to Europe for two years now. There won’t be any distinction between QR operated vs QR for VA operated.