Virgin Business and Velocity upgrades - I don't understand

[Moopere]

Hi Folks,

I've posted similarly before but it turned out I was a bit premature. I believe that the full business class product is now in operation from PER to the east and has been since late September. So, as I've been monitoring DJ progress and having just transferred a heap of CBA points to Velocity I popped along to the DJ site to see whats what.

I'm sad to say I still don't really understand what the deal is. I see PER-MEL flights labelled "Premium" with a smaller brown button in the same column called "Business". Hovering over Premium gives you a listing of what that means and its sounds about right for PE. Hoevering over Business lists the business deal and it also sounds about right, but its not exactly the same wording and in this funny old flying game wording (relating to benefits) is _really_ important.... the price appears to be the same, about $1299 so presumably Business _is_ Premium and there really isn't any difference? ...... thus the question.

So, Velocity seems to be telling me that if I were to spend 19,800 points I can upgrade from a "Flexi" fare to a "Premium" fare ... this is presumably a business fare as well??? Goodness really knows. Theres no way I'm spending money or points on the old PE style "Premium" seating/experience that Virgin used to have.

A reasonably randomly chosen return flight in "Flexi" economy was about $928 return PER-MEL. Upgrades to "Premium" appear to be fixed points cost based upon miles (which is good) at 19,800. Looking at what Velocity is offering via awards type redemption, they are still valuing their points at about 0.7c each. I think obtainable value via upgrade might be signficantly more:

Cash price, PER-MEL, Premium/Business = $2598
Cash + points, PER-MEL, Flexi upgraded to Premium/Business = $928 + 19,800 points = 0.7c/point = $928 + $138.60 = $1066.60

Given that the 19,800 points is giving you an apparent $1670 of value it looks like one is able to derive 8.4c / point. (2598-928) / 19,800 = $0.084

If Premium really is DJ's Business class product one does have to wonder why they are calling it Premium and not Business .... the thought occurs that its actually still PE, though hopefully more consistent than the last try.

 

[markis10]

You are not looking at the best value, try 6900 points plus around $150 for J

 

[AdMEL]

Premium is the broad category for both PE and J, depending on route/plane. I assume they've chosen Premium as it can cover both, until J is fully rolled out, at which time it may change.

I've seen the same lack of clarity regarding premium and business, but have assumed where the plane has J (e.g. MEL/SYD/BNE-PER), that premium is actually business (other than the hard product, there isn't any difference in conditions). I think this arises most where you have one leg on J (e.g. MEL-PER) then another where no J is currently available (e.g. PER-BME), which are both part of the same rewards redemption (e.g. MEL-BME).

With regard to upgrading from Flexi to J on the MEL/SYD/BNE-PER routes, you'd have to be mad to do that, when you can redeem the J for 6900 points + $175 - $225 each way!

 

[Moopere]

You are not looking at the best value, try 6900 points plus around $150 for J

With regard to upgrading from Flexi to J on the MEL/SYD/BNE-PER routes, you'd have to be mad to do that, when you can redeem the J for 6900 points + $175 - $225 each way!

I've seen this mentioned in other threads but I can't find these J fares. I have found 6900+small dollars "Saver" fares any-seat awards, but these look like some type of economy. All the "Premium" fares seem to be around 30K each way.

Premium is the broad category for both PE and J, depending on route/plane. I assume they've chosen Premium as it can cover both, until J is fully rolled out, at which time it may change.

I've seen the same lack of clarity regarding premium and business, but have assumed where the plane has J (e.g. MEL/SYD/BNE-PER), that premium is actually business (other than the hard product, there isn't any difference in conditions).

Mmm

Snooping around further I am indeed seeing some PER-MEL flights which are still under the Premium column but don't have the brown Business button. Points value seems to be the same as the business fare but about half the $$ contribution, these must be the old PE I assume.

 

[AdMEL]

I've seen this mentioned in other threads but I can't find these J fares. I have found 6900+small dollars "Saver" fares any-seat awards, but these look like some type of economy. All the "Premium" fares seem to be around 30K each way.

Select the J fare for about 30,000 points, then when you get to the pay page, you can reduce your points down to 6,900, which will increase the cost to the amount I mentioned.

Mmm

Snooping around further I am indeed seeing some PER-MEL flights which are still under the Premium column but don't have the brown Business button. Points value seems to be the same as the business fare but about half the $$ contribution, these must be the old PE I assume.

I think you'll find if you select PER-MEL and find some without business, they will be via ADL. I don't think there are any direct flights which don't have J.

What I was referring to was the mixed class two part flights such as MEL-BME, which is actually MEL-PER (J) then PER-BME in either PE or Y.

 

[Moopere]

Select the J fare for about 30,000 points, then when you get to the pay page, you can reduce your points down to 6,900, which will increase the cost to the amount I mentioned.

Ahhhhh. Merci beaucoup.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I've found it a bit of fun to go looking for the best value deals and choose a holiday around that .

Then try to find accomodation with perhaps Groupon (which also awards Velocity points), or even Getaway.

For a family, this actually comes up with some great (and affordable) holidays with all of us flying return in J

 

[markis10]

Ahhhhh. Merci beaucoup.

I think you can now see the value in DJ points , and dont forget its book able any time, no 24 hour cut-off (assuming there are seats available).

 

[simongr]

I have found this annoying as well - on this site it was pounded into me that all flights East Coast - MEL were BUSINESS. I was flying on a 737 with the new seats and EVERY VA/DJ staffer that I met/spoke to referred to the product as PREMIUM and NOT Business. One of my flight choices was on the A330 and that was specifically referred to as Business.

I actually think this is confusing for pax - especially ones that are not as familiar with the terminology as people on this site.

 

[serfty]

...
I actually think this is confusing for pax - especially ones that are not as familiar with the terminology as people on this site.

Methinx it's confusing for FA's as well.

Once they get used to it, we may get used to it.

In any case, looking at upgradeable fares it's basically the same price MEL-xSYD-PER as MEL-PER.

 

[mr_osborne]

Select the J fare for about 30,000 points, then when you get to the pay page, you can reduce your points down to 6,900, which will increase the cost to the amount I mentioned.

Can this be done if you don't have 30,000 points? Velocity won't let me select anything as I don't have enough points, and won't get 30K for a while, but 6900 is more reasonable.
I can't see a way to do this....

 

[AdMEL]

Can this be done if you don't have 30,000 points? Velocity won't let me select anything as I don't have enough points, and won't get 30K for a while, but 6900 is more reasonable.
I can't see a way to do this....

Yes, it can be done as long as you have a min. of 6,900 points in your account. I had the same issue and asked the same question on another thread a short while ago! If you have points on cards, you can transfer with 20% bonus until Monday.

 

[mr_osborne]

Yes, it can be done as long as you have a min. of 6,900 points in your account. I had the same issue and asked the same question on another thread a short while ago! If you have points on cards, you can transfer with 20% bonus until Monday.

Ok, Thanks, I'll look into it.

 

[Moopere]

Maybe this should be a separate topic, but I still can't seem to get pertinent info out of the Velocity/Virgin web pages so perhaps still relevant under "I don't understand".

Anyone know if Velocity "Classic" awards still earn you status credits + FF points?

How about Any Seat Awards? Get both FF and status?

 

[serfty]

I can tell you now that points+pay don't earn anything.

 

[Moopere]

Yikes. Not even tier miles for J redemptions?

I can't find anything useful. All the links to such info seem to point to www.virginaustralia.com.au/velocity which doesn't have any more obvious source of useful information. The site makes it seem like miles are the criteria for both FF earning and status ... but the lack of any wording specifically mentioning awards made me suspicious.

 

[Moopere]

Aha. After quite a bit of perseverance here is the bit of the T&C that Serfty is referring to above:

17.18 Unless otherwise specified, Points and Status Credits are not earned for the following:

17.18.1 for tickets which are unused (in whole or part) or refunded (in whole or part). If you do not travel on all sectors of a ticket, you will not earn Points or Status Credits in respect of the unused sectors;
17.18.2 for others flying with you (even if you have paid for their ticket);
17.18.3 travel on charter flights;
17.18.4 flights purchased as part of a packaged holiday;
17.18.5 free tickets (including tickets issued as Air Rewards including Points Plus Pay bookings);
17.18.6 travel industry rebated tickets;
17.18.7 competition prize tickets;
17.18.8 tickets acquired at an auction;
17.18.9 travel by Virgin Australia Group or Polynesian Blue team members on duty or on staff concessional travel;
17.18.10 travel under certain Government or corporate travel arrangements; or
17.18.11 on tickets which are subject to any specific provisions excluding the accumulation of Points and/or Status Credits which may include, for example and without limitation, discounted tickets.


[My BOLDing of text]

​

One assumes that the Velocity version of ASA is classified as an Air Reward.

Also of interest is this:

10.12 If you make any changes or cancellations to your flight after you have redeemed an Upgrade Using Points, the Points deducted from your Velocity Frequent Flyer Membership Account will be forfeited.

Ouch. Caution Will Robinson.

Still, for straightforward bookings, they certainly are giving great value at the moment.

Thanks to all contributors - I'm better placed to understand the new DJ now.

 

[mr_osborne]

Aha. After quite a bit of perseverance here is the bit of the T&C that Serfty is referring to above:

17.18 Unless otherwise specified, Points and Status Credits are not earned for the following:

17.18.1 for tickets which are unused (in whole or part) or refunded (in whole or part). If you do not travel on all sectors of a ticket, you will not earn Points or Status Credits in respect of the unused sectors;
17.18.2 for others flying with you (even if you have paid for their ticket);
17.18.3 travel on charter flights;
17.18.4 flights purchased as part of a packaged holiday;
17.18.5 free tickets (including tickets issued as Air Rewards including Points Plus Pay bookings);
17.18.6 travel industry rebated tickets;
17.18.7 competition prize tickets;
17.18.8 tickets acquired at an auction;
17.18.9 travel by Virgin Australia Group or Polynesian Blue team members on duty or on staff concessional travel;
17.18.10 travel under certain Government or corporate travel arrangements; or
17.18.11 on tickets which are subject to any specific provisions excluding the accumulation of Points and/or Status Credits which may include, for example and without limitation, discounted tickets.


[My BOLDing of text]​

Thanks. I had suspected this was the case, but it's useful to know... although I do wish we could do JASA's like Qantas people....
​

 

[markis10]

Thanks. I had suspected this was the case, but it's useful to know... although I do wish we could do JASA's like Qantas people....
[/INDENT]

You cannot get a JASA for 6900 points though, and you cannot book a rewards flight with QF to go in the next few hours either!

 

[mr_osborne]

You cannot get a JASA for 6900 points though, and you cannot book a rewards flight with QF to go in the next few hours either!

Fair enough... and I guess the lower requirement levels help too.