What will Qantas get to replace the 767

[oz_mark]

You may know that Qantas has sent out an RFP to Airbus and Boeing to ask for proposals, amongst other things, to replace the current, aged, gas guzzling 767 fleet. Which aircraft do you think Qantas will get?

 

[JohnK]

I am glad they are replacing the 767. I flew QF41/QF42 on the 767 to Jakarta and did not have a very enjoyable flight there and back. Not as comfortable as the A330's or 747's. Not sure if it was ever meant to be a long range aircraft (for comfort I think 3 hours on a 767 is more than enough) and only has a cruising speed of 870km/h making the trip to Jakarta a 7 hour flight.

Qantas has around 24 of these in its fleet.

It may end up with a mixture of Boeing 787's and Airbus A350's. Both look very good.

 

[aus_flyer]

Why not A330?

 

[JohnK]

Why not A330?

Good idea, a good plane.

But I think they will get the newer models, A350's and 787's.

 

[NM]

Why not A330?

With the cost of fuel, the 787 and A350 make much more attractive options. Qantas tend to buy their aircraft new (except for a few specific cases of fleet supplements) and keep them for many years. The 767's are a classic example of that policy.

Also note they are not overly happy with the way their current A330's fit into the fleet. The -300's are doing ok on international routes, but the -200 has two major issues:

• cabin floor is not strong enough for Skybeds, so can only operate domestic routes without a very large capital investment to strengthen the floor
• turnaround time is not good for domestic services

So they have these longer range A330-200s in the fleet and they can can't use the range and struggle to use them effectively on domestic ops. Since there are only 4 of them, I could see them going to JQ or AO for regional international routes that do not require skybeds. But that can't happen until there is a suitable short-haul twin aisle replacement. And I expect the 787 is going to fill that role since the A350 will likely bring similar issues for the domestic routes.

 

[JohnK]

...cabin floor is not string enough for Skybeds....

ROFLMAO. I am sure you do this on purpose.

How stringy does the cabin floor need to be for skybeds :?:

 

[NM]

...cabin floor is not string enough for Skybeds....

ROFLMAO. I am sure you do this on purpose.

How stringy does the cabin floor need to be for skybeds :?:

OK, lay off me for a while. I am not travelling at 100% today. I think you know exactly what I meant, even if my spell checker did not. Just in case you didn't know what I meant, I have fixed it in my post.

 

[JohnK]

OK, lay off me for a while. I am not travelling at 100% today. I think you know exactly what I meant, even if my spell checker did not. Just in case you didn't know what I meant, I have fixed it in my post.

I knew what you meant.

Sorry to hassle you. I will leave you alone.

 

[oz_mark]

Why not A330?

Isn't the A330 just a tad bigger than the models they are looking at?

 

[NM]

Why not A330?

Isn't the A330 just a tad bigger than the models they are looking at?

A330 and A350 are about the same size. The A350 can be considered a next generation A330 with more efficient engines and more use of composites and other material and product improvements introduced for the A380 development.

So yes, the A330 (and A350) are larger than the 767, and that is part of the problem with turn around times for short-haul domestic operations. But the A330-300 has proved a good size for international operations.

The 787-8 is a closer size replacement for the 767, and is my expectation for domestic ops. The 787-9 is a little larger and longer range capability and my expectation for international ops, still be slightly smaller than the A330-300.

 

[Yada Yada]

With the cost of fuel, the 787 and A350 make much more attractive options. Qantas tend to buy their aircraft new (except for a few specific cases of fleet supplements) and keep them for many years. The 767's are a classic example of that policy.

Also note they are not overly happy with the way their current A330's fit into the fleet. The -300's are doing ok on international routes, but the -200 has two major issues:

• cabin floor is not strong enough for Skybeds, so can only operate domestic routes without a very large capital investment to strengthen the floor
• turnaround time is not good for domestic services

So they have these longer range A330-200s in the fleet and they can can't use the range and struggle to use them effectively on domestic ops. Since there are only 4 of them, I could see them going to JQ or AO for regional international routes that do not require skybeds. But that can't happen until there is a suitable short-haul twin aisle replacement. And I expect the 787 is going to fill that role since the A350 will likely bring similar issues for the domestic routes.

Interesting info, NM.

I really like travelling in A330's on the SYD-PER run. Shame they might not get more of the same.

What about the 767? Are Boing still making them? (Note to JohnK - that was an intentional typo!) I assume the later series 767 models would be very fuel efficient and suit what QF wants to do.

 

[JohnK]

What about the 767? Are Boing still making them? (Note to JohnK - that was an intentional typo!)

Thank you very much. You are insinuating that I point out all spelling/typing mistakes. :roll: Wrong stereotype. :? I only ever point out some of the ones by NM when I am ROFLMAO.

I suppose I deserved that character assassination. :shock:

 

[Yada Yada]

Thank you very much. You are insinuating that I point out all spelling/typing mistakes. :roll: Wrong stereotype. :? I only ever point out some of the ones by NM when I am ROFLMAO.

I suppose I deserved that character assassination. :shock:

Just having a friendly dig. A friend works for Boeing and he always refers to the company as "Boing". Like all big organisations, crazy things happen internally and it never ceases to amaze him.

 

[NM]

What about the 767? Are Boing still making them? (Note to JohnK - that was an intentional typo!) I assume the later series 767 models would be very fuel efficient and suit what QF wants to do.

The Boeing 767 assembly line is still open. Not many currently in the pipeline. The 767-400 was not a very popular aircraft, partly due to turn-around issues introduced by the longer cabin.

Boeing had 14 orders in 2005, being 3 for ANA, 6 for JAL, 6 for LAN, 2 for Shanghai Airlines, and 1 unidentified, plus 4 order cancellations giving a new result of 14 orders remaining. Compare with 454 orders for 737, 106 orders for 777, 43 orders for 747, and 173 orders for 787.

However, Boeing are still hopeful of scoring the USAF Tanker contract using the KC767. If they win that contract, the line will remain operational for a long time.

Buying new 767s does not fit Qantas strategic plan. Historically they have purchased new generation aircraft and operate them for long periods (eg 20 years). Over that operating period the benefits of the new technology of the 787 and A350 would greatly negate the higher purhade price over buying new 767s.

 

[JohnK]

The poll proved to be correct. :? 57% went with Boeing 787.

Maybe the Qantas board used this poll result to assist in making it's final decision. :shock: :roll:

 

[Damien]

The poll proved to be correct. :? 57% went with Boeing 787.

Maybe the Qantas board used this poll result to assist in making it's final decision. :shock: :roll:

Scarier things have been known to happen.

 

[NM]

Well for me, the 767 replacement was the easy pick (see my previous comments in this thread). The difficulty was seeing where the 777 may fit in, and with QF stating that neither Boeing nor Airbus could provide an economical solution for LHR-SYD, it make sense to stick with 787 for the fleet replacements and expansion.

I still believe we will see some 747-8 orders when it comes tomes to replace the current 747-400s. But I think they will leave that decision for a while yet and see what happens with the A380 as well as monitoring the direction from other operators of large fleets of 747-400s (SQ, CX, BA, LH etc).

 

[oz_mark]

I was a little surprised that the order was just 787's (albeit in different configs). Still, they probably have some time to decide on other parts of their fleet, as there is a bit of a gap between the 787 and the A380.