Which is the most generous FF program? American, Qantas, United?

[rebe]

Hi there!

This thread may be a bit long but I am trying to work out what is the best frequent flyer program for my situation and am hoping for some help from all you experienced frequent flyers.

At the moment I am a member of three programs (AA, QF, United) but have most of my points with American. (146,000 miles, 3960 YTD elite qualifying points, 12 upgrade account balance) This is because I was living in the Americas previously. I returned to live in Australia a year ago, however I have not been doing much traveling for the past year so I don't have any FF status at the moment. I have however started a new job where I will be traveling to Europe or the USA 5-6 times a year. Probably 4 times to Canada and the States and two times to Europe. It's important to note that I work in a creative industry so my flights are economy class but I can generally choose which airline I book with. That's why I want to maximise my points as best I can and try and work towards the occasional upgrade. I am hoping for answers to the following:

* With which of these airlines can I move to the gold (or equivalent) level fastest? I want to have access to the lounges and any priority services.

* Which of these airlines include upgrades as part of their FF programs? How does this work? If I am flying on a QF/AA code share flight, can I access an AA upgrade on what is essentially a QF flight to the states? In my AA Advantage account I currently have an upgrade account balance of 12. Can I use these to upgrade to business class on a Melb-LAX Qantas flight?

* When choosing a FF program, should I be assessing it in terms of lifetime status? How does this work and what are the benefits?

* I want to take out a new credit card to use for all my travel expenses (including flight purchases). What is your recommendation?

Thanks!
Rebecca

 

[Mwenenzi]

rebe Welcome to AFF

If I am flying on a QF/AA code share flight, can I access an AA upgrade on what is essentially a QF flight to the states? In my AA Advantage account I currently have an upgrade account balance of 12. Can I use these to upgrade to business class on a Melb-LAX Qantas flight?

Not possible to upgrade a QF flight or AA codeshare on QF metal with AA miles / certificates. Only possible to use QF points to upgrade a QF flight number on QF metal. In any case, it can be very hard to get an upgrade from QF economy to Bus on long haul QF flights.

Often reported here and on FT its not that hard to get an upgrade on UA MEL/SYD to LAX/SFO.

Upgrades usally have bettter availibilty mid week as many business pax often travel at weekends.

Be careful that your miles do not expire, as in many freq flyer programme miles expire in 18 months if no activity.

 

[futaris]

The easiest way to reach 2nd highest tier (QF Gold, AA Plat, UA 1P) is:

• QF: Y-Up fares in the USA - earn First Class SCs. Not possible to challenge. 700 SCs to qualify, less to requalify.
• AA: Platinum Challenge (on AA codeshares) and/or B fares. Alternatively fly 50k EQP, 50k EQM or 60 segments on Oneworld.
• UA: I think it is possible to sign up for a challenge, too... Getting 3P (Premier Associate) is fairly easily by trading on Coupon Connection on Flyertalk. This will get you Economy Plus access, and is four highest tier, but gives most of the advantages of third highest tier, Premier (2P). Alternatively fly 60k EQM, or 60 segments on Star Alliance.

Upgrades (trans-pacific):

• UA: Easy, since the planes are fairly old. Even having 3P or 2P will get you access to Economy Plus seating.
• QF: Really need to be Platinum for these to go through, and put them through a long time in advance. Expect this to be much harder on weekend flights, and probably much harder on the A380 when it starts in Oct.
• AA: You can't use these on the QF flights. Your next best bet is to fly via Tokyo (NRT), and use your 500 mile certs, or if you reach the highest tier (ExPlat) you will have 8 eVIPs that will upgrade you on all continuous sectors.

Lifetime Status (your lifetime / program's lifetime):

• AA: All earned redeemable miles, including those from credit cards, Club Live Search and hotel programs. If you are Platinum or ExPlat, you will get 100% bonus mileage on flights. You don't have to fly AA, or oneworld to earn mileage. Even flying on AA partners will earn mileage, as will hotel stays, miles bought, etc.
• UA: BIS (Butt-in-Seat) miles on UA flights only. Counted from the EQM (Elite Qualifying Miles) only. Flights on other *A flights don't count towards lifetime status.

For third highest tier, these both need 1 Million Miles. Second highest tier, needs 2 Million Miles.

• QF: Earnt through Status Credits. 7000 SCs for third highest (Lifetime Silver). 14000 SCs for second highest (Lifetime Gold). If you are flying discount economy from BNE-SYD-SFO, you would only get 55 SCs each way, so you would need to fly ~127 return trips for LTG.

• AA: If you were flying on B, H or K fares for BNE-SYD-SFO flights and had Platinum access on AA, you would need to fly ~63 return trips. And if you were on M, V or L fares it would be ~127 return trips for lifetime Platinum. This of course assumes you're not supplementing your mileage from other sources.

Lifetime status means that you don't ever have to credit another flight to that program again to get the benefits of lounge access, priority baggage, etc (when flying that alliance). Probably means more depending on your age.

Credit Cards:

• AA: Best mileage is through Plat Amex->SPG, 1.5 points/AU$. 1 Amex point = 0.33 SPG (usually). 20,000 SPG = 25,000 AA. Approx 0.6 AA/AU$ usually.
• QF: Plenty of cards with 1.5 QF/AU$ directly. Can also do the same through Amex. Some cards offer extra for booking QANTAS.
• UA: Nothing good in Australia. Seems to be the only decent way to get points in is to buy them directly from UA.

NB The other Star Alliance program that people seem to like (at the moment) is BMI, since earning miles are easy via Hertz and Hilton.

One other factor is redemption of miles. AA/UA miles are worth a lot more than QF miles simply because they don't charge fuel taxes on redemptions.

 

[rebe]

Thanks for all that info. It sounds as though upgrades aren't much of an option on QF and AA but they still might be better programs in terms of accruing and using miles and taking advantage of credit cards points.

Will I still accrue maximum AA points if I'm flying on a QF code share or do I need to book it under an AA code?

Does it make sense to use the AA program when realistically most of my flights outside of the states will be with their partner airlines?

 

[simongr]

Just be careful on QF flights crediting to AA for deep discount fares - reduced earning potential.

If most flights will be on partner airlines this shouldnt be a problem. However no status bonus is earned on JL and BA - mind you no status bonus is earned when flying CX and crediting to QF.

 

[tscharke]

welcome to AFF

i will only add one little bit but for me it has been a very beneficial part of achieving AA executive platinum two years running - if you book with AA in the right class of economy (Y or B) you earn the exact amount of qpoints as if you were flying business or first class! Unfortunately QF are not that generous!

 

[drron]

I have always been Australian based but jumped to AA 6 years ago.
Reasons-Easier upgrades that are free when flying AA.
-Less fuel fines.
-Easier to get awards in premier cabins.
-easier to get lifetime status.
Downsides-no chance upgrades on QF.
-no AC entrance when flying domestic in the USA unless QP(but i have QP life).
-harder to get to top tier.
Other points-can get to mid tier much more easily with AA cf QF due to challenge-have to fly on AA flight number but codeshare on QF counts.
Lifetime status on AA is easier as all miles earned count including hotels,CC etc.
As to credit cards the best in australia for AA is Diners Club.I have a corporate card-fee free,1.5 points per $A,2 points = 1 SPG point so if transferring SPG-AA in 20000 point lots then for me $A1=0.93 AA miles.
However it really depends on individual circumstances.

 

[simongr]

if you book with AA in the right class of economy (Y or B)

There's your first problem

This does go back to the initial point regarding the fare class - rather than the cabin class. Will you have much chance to control the fare basis as well as the carrier?

 

[Platy]

The easiest way to reach 2nd highest tier (QF Gold, AA Plat, UA 1P) is:

• QF: Y-Up fares in the USA - earn First Class SCs. Not possible to challenge. 700 SCs to qualify, less to requalify.
• .

Using Y-Up fares is one very powerful solution if you are happy to join the Qantas scheme. These are economy fares you buy from AA, which come with a guaranteed upgrade to First class and then earn First class points and status credits with the Qantas FF scheme.

You can see these fares on the AA web site by selecting the "fare+schedule option" and they are called "instant upgrade".

You can pass them off as "economy" to your client/employer, but still get the benefits of travelling domestic first in the USA.

To give you an example, I bought Jetstar economy from Sydney to Honolulu (which I upgraded at the airport using cash now $400 each way) and then instant upgrade fares to Boston. Buying a $2200 fare HNL-(LAX-DFW-)-BOS return can earn 780 status credits towards the 800 for Gold and 1400 you need to attain top tier Platinum on Qantas.

You are simply not going to earn lots of points or credits towards tier status sitting in economy going to the US, but you can certainly turbo charge your status by getting your employer/client to pay for economy fares to Honolulu (which you have a good chance of upgrading at the airport using your own cash) and then instant upgrade fares from Honolulu to wherever you need to be in the USA - the more stops, the more status credits you are likely to attain.

To complete my example, SYD-HNL return on Jetstar upgraded to Starclass earns 280 status credits, the above mentioned HNL-BOS return another 780 which totals 1,060 in one trip for about $3,500 of client's money and $800 of your own (the Jetstar upgrades). You are now Gold (above 800 credits) within easy reach of the magic 1400 credits for Platinum even by smply sitting in economy across the Pacific on Qantas flights (earning about 200 credits for each) for your next couple of trips if you decide you want to that extra step above Gold.

(Once you are Platinum you have some advantage over Gold - you earn double points for each qualifying flight on Qantas and AA (not +50%) and will see those points go up quite quickly! Also, you will be using the First class lounges (not just business lounges) and have better priority when listed for upgrades!).

If Gold is sufficient forget the Jetstar upgrades.

Keep an eye on your annual assessment date on the Qantas scheme (it may be to end February for example) so you can match your travel strategy accordingly.

Hope that kinda makes some sense...where are you heading in the US?

Note that some others prefer to base their travel around the AA scheme - one reason is because of the more generous redemption opportunities over Qantas (as noted above in an earlier post). You may prefer to do this given you already have a history with that scheme.

A close friend in Sydney uses United to fly to the US 4 times a year and ALWAYS gets an upgarde on points having bought an upgradeable economy fare, although he had built up good tier status with the airline (I think it is caled 1K???).

 

[medhead]

Using Y-Up fares is one very powerful solution if you are happy to join the Qantas scheme. These are economy fares you buy from AA, which come with a guaranteed upgrade to First class and then earn First class points and status credits with the Qantas FF scheme.

Are the instant upgrade fares only available on AA for US domestic flights?

 

[serfty]

They are available domestically on many of the US airlines.

For those looking for Qantas FF status; those of American Airlines (as a oneworld partner of Qantas) are the ones you need to look at.

 

[Platy]

They are available domestically on many of the US airlines.

For those looking for Qantas FF status; those of American Airlines (as a oneworld partner of Qantas) are the ones you need to look at.

You can get an idea of comparative fare levels across multiple airlines for given city pairs at the following web site:

Discounted First Class and Flyer Talk Fares

If you are interested in AA (for OneWorld/points and SCs) you can see them on the AA website under "instant upgrade" column using the "price+schedule" search option on the booking engine.

 

[medhead]

If you are interested in AA (for OneWorld/points and SCs) you can see them on the AA website under "instant upgrade" column using the "price+schedule" search option on the booking engine.

Thanks for the info Platy and Serfty

Amazing fees, I did a dummy booking lax to hou - extended family there, the instant upgrade was 30% less than economy flexible. And the fare conditions seem to be better than the eco-flex.

The flights connected via DFW and said there was no F cabin DFW to HOU. Would the points earn on that leg be economy level?

 

[serfty]

Check the booking class, DFW-HOU is probably an AeAgle all coach flight; they normally book into Y with these fares.

Click on the

Flight Details toward the left to see booking class (and other information, such as Meals etc.)

e.g.

Snack $
Yes
0 Days
Y
*Economy​

If you see P for the LAX-DFW flight, you'll earn 120 SC's for that flight, Y on the DFW-HOU flight earns 20.

 

[serfty]

For further information look at this thread and the specific post:

• http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...ng-qff-points-credits-aa-8125.html#post163399

 

[Platy]

Thanks for the info Platy and Serfty

Amazing fees, I did a dummy booking lax to hou - extended family there, the instant upgrade was 30% than economy flexible. And the fare conditions seem to be better than the eco-flex.

The flights connected via DFW and said there was no F cabin DFW to HOU. Would the points earn on that leg be economy level?

You've probably got your brain around this already, but the big earners for SCs are those starting from HNL because you are going to get the 150 SCs to get to LAX each way to kick your journey off to a great start.

Imagine if you went from HNL to HOU (IAH). Route yourself HNL-OGG-LAX-DFW-IAH and you get 310 SCs each way or 620 SCs return for a cost of about US$3200 !!!

In fact, flights to BOS offer particularly attractive instant upgrade fares. Here's one crazy idea for you. Go HNL-(LAX-DFW)-BOS return and then buy a separate BOS-(DFW)-IAH.

If you make the BOS-IAH cheap economy fares you will get 780 + 60 = 840 status credits for around ($1107 + $1107 + $139 + $139 + tax) US$2700! Or 3.2 US$ per SC.

If you make BOS-IAH another instand upgrade fare you're looking at a grand total of 780 + 280 = 1060 SCs for around ($1107+$1107+$754+$754 + local taxes) US$4,000. Or 3.8 US$ per SC.

Try to find routes which require one or more connections (allowing time between flights) an avoid transcons with 3 class aircraft - stick to the two class (first and coach).

Enjoy!

 

[Platy]

Thanks for the info Platy and Serfty

Amazing fees, I did a dummy booking lax to hou - extended family there, the instant upgrade was 30% than economy flexible. And the fare conditions seem to be better than the eco-flex.

The flights connected via DFW and said there was no F cabin DFW to HOU. Would the points earn on that leg be economy level?

Just in case you didn't realise this (sorry if you did), Medhead, you can use Mileage Monkey to check out SC and mileage earn:

Go to

MileageMonkey 0.95014

Enter the route and tick the ignore error box in the OneWorld Explore Validator box.

And you can work out the fruits of you intended travel in the table generated at the bottom of the page

 

[medhead]

Thanks again for all the guidance.

I think I saw the Y on the DFW-Hou (or IAH) so that should ahve ansered my question.

Also very helpful to be pointed to mileage monkey. I was aware of it, but had never used it, so will now.

edit: usually use the QF SC earning table. Sorry to hijack the thread

 

[serfty]

You soon learn the zones ...

• 1-600 = 60
• 601-1200 = 90
• 1201-2400 = 120
• 2401-3600 = 150

Were getting ot here ...

 

[Arthur Hodgson]

Well, the discussion has (predictably) gone straight to Oneworld (QF, AA), pretty much ignoring all else.

I do feel that the OP may well be being steered (by default) in the wrong direction. Given that it seems she will mainly be flying internationally, Qantas does not seen to be so important (and it has reliability issues at the moment)

Also, as has been previously pointed out, long-haul upgrades on UA are much easier to get, and sure beat the heck out of economy on Qantas (especially for a 14-hour flight). They can even be purchased at check-in.

Earning points on UA is at least as good as AA, and much better than QF for a Star silver/gold traveller. Redemptions are where UA/Star Alliance is particularly strong. As an example I just booked an award ticket from Singapore to San Juan, Puerto Rico with a stopover in San Francisco in business class for 90,000 UA Mileage Plus miles. Transpacific flights are on SQ, and US domestic flights, of course, are on UA (first class). Taxes amounted to AUD 51.80 in total.

Try doing that on Qantas!

Oh, and I am now a lifetime Gold member of UA and the Star Alliance, having clocked up over 1.6 million BIS miles on UA.