Which OW FFP?

[penegal]

Having just executed a couple of redemption transactions my OW balances are now close enough to zero that I can re-assess my position with OW.

I guess this is the standard "Which OW FFP is the best" thread. At the moment I’m tossing up between AA and QF based on conflicting information from a couple of friends.

--

I’m an Australian citizen and resident. I’m based in MEL and currently I do about 30+ domestic sectors per year for work. Mostly it’s MEL-SYD, with the odd CBR, BNE and PER sectors thrown into the mix. ATM a lot of my international travel is with *A or un-allied carriers (EK and EY)

Hence QFF 1000pts min earn on domestic flights will yield some benefit for me, as well as status benefits of free QP membership with QFF.

But as I understand it AA has better burn rates and better availability?? I also see myself becoming more USA focused over the next 3-5 years, so perhaps AA would make more sense in that light when I start doing ~10 USA domestic sectors per year, with potential extended stays in the USA (… reward tickets for personal use on weekends).

I probably don’t fly OW enough to get WP/ExP status with both. Hence I think focusing on one program would be beneficial.

I’m also contemplating a potential CC tie-in, although that’s now a little more complicated with QFF move to limit transfer programs… but CC wouldn’t be until after October.

Thanks in advance for your comments


(X-Posted to FlyerTalk)

 

[Flashback]

What booking class do your domestic flights normally book into?

 

[penegal]

What booking class do your domestic flights normally book into?

Y FullFlex - Which I think also carrys the booking code Y

 

[Flashback]

Y FullFlex - Which I think also carrys the booking code Y

In that case AA would be a good program to credit to. Do note though, that to upgrade QF flights you do need to have QFF points and can't use your AA points to upgrade.

I would be tempted though, to just credit to QFF as the AA minimum mileage guarantee does not kick in until you earn some form of status with them.

 

[penegal]

I would be tempted though, to just credit to QFF as the AA minimum mileage guarantee does not kick in until you earn some form of status with them.

Ahk, So not worth it until I can get a couple of the USA trips on the AA card to kick status along? When does the min milage guarentee kick in?

As a side note, Can I earn OW points on EY flights to AUD, or do I need to book using the QF codeshare codes to earn points?

 

[Keith009]

Ahk, So not worth it until I can get a couple of the USA trips on the AA card to kick status along? When does the min milage guarentee kick in?

As a side note, Can I earn OW points on EY flights to AUD, or do I need to book using the QF codeshare codes to earn points?

You need at least AA Gold (25k EQM/EQP or 5k on AA metal + $$ for Gold challenge) for the min mileage guarantee. When you get to AA Platinum status (50k EQM/EQP or 10k on AA metal + $$ for Platinum challenge) you get a further mileage bonus on QF and select airline partners on top of the min mileage guarantee.

AFAIK you could book the QF codeshare to get QFF points and SCs on EY flights due to the special QF/EY bilateral agreement. I don't think you'd be able to get other forms of OW miles on EY flights as you generally need to be on a flight that's both operated and marketed by a OW airline.

 

[penegal]

You need at least AA Gold (25k EQM/EQP or 5k on AA metal + $$ for Gold challenge) for the min mileage guarantee. When you get to AA Platinum status (50k EQM/EQP or 10k on AA metal + $$ for Platinum challenge) you get a further mileage bonus on QF and select airline partners on top of the min mileage guarantee.

Gotcha. I don't think Gold/Plat would take too long to achieve if I took a couple of international sectors on OW insted of *A.

Would you say that once status is achieved AA is a better program?

AFAIK you could book the QF codeshare to get QFF points and SCs on EY flights due to the special QF/EY bilateral agreement. I don't think you'd be able to get other forms of OW miles on EY flights as you generally need to be on a flight that's both operated and marketed by a OW airline.

Thanks for your help

 

[futaris]

If you're mainly flying B or Y fares (sometimes fully flex is B), then AAdvantage will better reward you. If you're in classes higher than that (Business / First), then the SC earn is greater on QFF, particularly as a percentage of Lifetime Status.

Once you have status in either it doesn't really make much difference, except in the case of irregular operations (irrops) and seating prefs. The airlines tend to look after their own FF members first rather than others in the same alliance. Although, this isn't always the case, as CX often treat all Oneworld Elites well.

Also, what do you want to do with your points once you've earnt them? If you want to redeem for premium rewards, then AA is better. If you want to redeem for upgrades, then QFF is probably better, unless you plan to fly long-haul on AA.

Once you've reached AA Plat or EXP, you'll have QANTAS Club access, and access to any other Oneworld lounge (when flying Oneworld). However, you won't have access to the lounges in the USA, unless you're flying internationally.

If you get QANTAS WP, then the main advantage is Anytime lounge access...

NB, if you want to do the AA Challenge, you don't need to fly on AA metal, just on an AA fare (codeshare)...

 

[v8Statesman]

The airlines tend to look after their own FF members first rather than others in the same alliance. Although, this isn't always the case, as CX often treat all Oneworld Elites well.

I am sure I heard a rumor that CX didn't like AA OWE's as much as other OWE. I think it was due to the nature of Americans demanding OP-Ups as per the norm in the USA.

 

[Keith009]

I am sure I heard a rumor that CX didn't like AA OWE's as much as other OWE. I think it was due to the nature of Americans demanding OP-Ups as per the norm in the USA.

That's just at check in. Unless some cheeky agent decides to enter a nasty remark on the PNR where the crew can see.

 

[penegal]

Once you've reached AA Plat or EXP, you'll have QANTAS Club access, and access to any other Oneworld lounge (when flying Oneworld). However, you won't have access to the lounges in the USA, unless you're flying internationally.

If you get QANTAS WP, then the main advantage is Anytime lounge access...

Thanks for your reply

So (and please correct me if I'm wrong here):
* QP domestic access is free for QFF WP, AA Plat or AA ExP regardless of the class of travel?

* USA domestic lounge access is limited to AA Admiral’s Club members (annual fee applies, with no AAdvantage access regardless of tier)... but QFF WP do get access for free regardless of class of travel?

* All airside International lounges (AUS, USA and global OW lounges) access is free for QFF WP, AA Plat, AA ExP regardless of the class of travel?

 

[futaris]

Yep. All correct, as shown on oneworld.com.

 

[NM]

* QP domestic access is free for QFF WP, AA Plat or AA ExP regardless of the class of travel?

Domestic Qantas Club lounge access is available for Qantas Gold and Platinum and any oneWorld Sapphire (e.g. AA Plstinum) or Emerald (e.g. AA Executive Platinum). Additionally, domestic Qantas Club Business Class lounges are available for Qantas Platinum and OneWorld Emerald status passengers.

Qantas Platinum FF members also get "Anytime" access to domestic Qantas Club and Qantas International Business Class lounges. In practice, I have been granted similar "Anytime" access to domestic Qantas Club lounge with my AA Executive Platinum membership.

Qantas Platinum and AA Executive Platinum (and all other OneWorld Emerald status members) can use the Qantas (or any other OneWorld) First Class lounge any time when travelling on a OneWorld flight.

* USA domestic lounge access is limited to AA Admiral’s Club members (annual fee applies, with no AAdvantage access regardless of tier)... but QFF WP do get access for free regardless of class of travel?

AA Platinum and Executive Platinum members do get access to AA lounges when travelling internationally on a OneWorld flight on the same day. So if connecting DFW-LAX-SYD on the same day, an AA Plat or Exec Plat member can use the AA lounge at DFW. But if not travelling international that day, no AA lounge access is available based on AA Platinum or Executive Platinum status. For this reason I use my Qantas Gold card for lounge access in the USA.

* All airside International lounges (AUS, USA and global OW lounges) access is free for QFF WP, AA Plat, AA ExP regardless of the class of travel?

All OneWorld lounge. OneWorld Emeral status (Qantas Platinum and AA Executive Platinum) can use First Class lounge where they exist. This is only when departing on a OneWorld flight.

Qantas Platinum member can use Qantas Business class lounge even if not travelling on a OneWorld flight. This is part of their "Anytime" access.

 

[drron]

Whether you go for Aadvantage or QFF depends on what you want from your FF program.If you want to obtain premium cabin awards then generally AA is best.If you want to upgrade on US domestic flights or if you are going to fly AA long haul then obviously AA.
However if you want to upgrade on long haul flights out of Australia it has to be QFF.If you want status and F lounge access that is much easier with QFF.An example of this was shown with a question of flights SFO-DFW recently.If you purchase a premium class on aa.com they will offer you SFO-LAX-DFW for the same price as the direct flights.So if a dare in the premium cabin you will score 160 SCs or 11.5% of WP qualification.If in Y you still earn 80SCs.However in Aadvantage with either of those fares you earn ~ 2400 EQPs or just 2.40% of EXP qualification.
I am fortunate in that I direct points to AA but from this year mrsdrron will go for WP on QFF.She is virtually always flying with me.The flights she does to get to WP are virtually what it takes me to get to AA plat.

 

[penegal]

Thanks NM.
I think WP 'anytime' access is a good benefit, especially if travelling on another carrier.

Whether you go for Aadvantage or QFF depends on what you want from your FF program.If you want to obtain premium cabin awards then generally AA is best.If you want to upgrade on US domestic flights or if you are going to fly AA long haul then obviously AA.
However if you want to upgrade on long haul flights out of Australia it has to be QFF.If you want status and F lounge access that is much easier with QFF.An example of this was shown with a question of flights SFO-DFW recently.If you purchase a premium class on aa.com they will offer you SFO-LAX-DFW for the same price as the direct flights.So if a dare in the premium cabin you will score 160 SCs or 11.5% of WP qualification.If in Y you still earn 80SCs.However in Aadvantage with either of those fares you earn ~ 2400 EQPs or just 2.40% of EXP qualification.
I am fortunate in that I direct points to AA but from this year mrsdrron will go for WP on QFF.She is virtually always flying with me.The flights she does to get to WP are virtually what it takes me to get to AA plat.

Thanks for your insight.

I think my biggest issue is accurately predicting how much USA (AA) travel I will actually be doing over the next year or two. Things at work are definetly looking like they are heading towards USA in a big way, which would push me towards AA, but QF do take the trump card of being the main carrier in my home country, hence upgrades and rewards ex.AUS are more likely. Also QF have 'anytime' lounge access.

 

[futaris]

Don't forget that all QANTAS upgrades are standby upgrades, and may not clear until a few hours before the flight or not at all.

In certain cases a QANTAS upgrade "may" cost more than an AA redemption. For example, SYD-LAX is 62.5k AA miles for a J redemption, or 72.5k for an F redemption. A discount economy to business upgrade is 72k, and a economy to business or business to first upgrade is 45k.

If you were flying further in the same zone, e.g. SYD-LAX-JFK then it'll cost you more QFF to upgrade. AA miles for a redemption will stay the same.

A QANTAS WP should have access to more QF reward seats than a AA EXP and may even be able to get QANTAS to release extra reward seats (in economy).

 

[NM]

Just by way of example for awards, I have an AA-issued award trip coming up for Mrs NM and myself. Travelling J BNE-HKG-KUL, then J KUL-HKG connecting to F HKG-BKK, then returning F BKK-SYD connecting to J SYD-BNE. That has cost 112,500 AA miles and US$129 in taxes and charges per person. Not bad value.

This was originally booked as a F class OneWorld award for 180K miles each. I have just had it reissued as 3 x One-Way Partner Awards (one J and two F). AA waived the miles reinstatement fee and re-issued for no penalty, preserving the already booked U and Z class inventory as there was no more award seats available. Great service and great value award.

The same trip using QF FF points would have cost 278,000 points and considerably more in taxes and charges (fuel fines) per person.

And AA's EVIP upgrades can be given to any person, not restricted to family members. So even if you do not travel much on AA to use the 8 x EVIP upgrades (each good for up to 3 sectors), you can use them to upgrade family, friends, colleagues or even friends of friends you have never met!