Why doesn't VA fly direct between Sydney and Darwin ?

[gwilli1]

I was just looking at flights to Darwin ex Syd & realised there is no direct with VA . Its via Brisbane, Melbourne or Perth !

Im scratching me head as to why they don't , and see this as a huge missed opportunity for VA.

There international inflow into Sydney with the recent alliances is substantial , with 2 flights ( VA & DL) coming in from the US each day & multiple carriers & flights (VA , EY & Singapore) coming in from Europe/Asia / Middle East also. Im sure they would have no problems filling a 737 or at the very least an E190 ( not to sure of distance capability) with at least a daily flight .
The QF Group basically own this route & if VA are striving to compete , they need to be offering directs out of Sydney to all capital cities.

Keen to hear others thoughts


Mods - please feel free to move this thread to 'Open discussion" or ' Your Questions" if you deem appropriate.

 

[Bolthead]

Totally agree, I was just looking last night as well and was bemused on why they don't have a direct flight. I guess one of the questions that needs to be answered is the flights from Brisbane, Melbourne and Perth always full (or close to full)........ mind you I was looking for PE flights and the price quickly changed my mind....... even with 2:1 fares.

 

[Justchecking]

How do QF do on the route loads wise? Ive never understood why they don't.

 

[markis10]

DJ have been taking advantage of the lack of MEL services along with the lack of a curfew to operate in DRW, their flights operate as a result when there is not a bun flight for space at the gates. A SYD flight would need a 3PM departure at best, while the MEL option leaves after a full day of business!

 

[Justchecking]

DJ have been taking advantage of the lack of MEL services along with the lack of a curfew to operate in DRW, their flights operate as a result when there is not a bun flight for space at the gates. A SYD flight would need a 3PM departure at best, while the MEL option leaves after a full day of business!

While the above makes sense, why does a Syd flight necessitate a 3pm departure? There's plenty of gate space late night in Syd. I think DJs last flight out is like 21:30pm? Curfew is 23:00, is there something I'm missing?

 

[markis10]

While the above makes sense, why does a Syd flight necessitate a 3pm departure? There's plenty of gate space late night in Syd. I think DJs last flight out is like 21:30pm? Curfew is 23:00, is there something I'm missing?

3PM Darwin is 4.30 Sydney, makes for a 9-9.30 arrival into Sydney as per the QF flight, if something goes wrong on the inbound there is not much leeway before curfew.

 

[gwilli1]

3PM Darwin is 4.30 Sydney, makes for a 9-9.30 arrival into Sydney as per the QF flight, if something goes wrong on the inbound there is not much leeway before curfew.

I see no real scheduling difference to what is in place for Perth . Both VA & QF Perth flights arrive into Sydney between 22.00-22.30 . Therefore you could leave Darwin as late as 16.30 for a 22.30 arrival . If curfew ends up being the issue before departure , then i would see the scenario would be to delayed departure ex Darwin to around midnight for a 6am arrival in Sydney . Does anyone have any insight as to what happens with Perth flights that may not meet arrival before curfew ?

 

[markis10]

I see no real scheduling difference to what is in place for Perth . Both VA & QF Perth flights arrive into Sydney between 22.00-22.30 . Therefore you could leave Darwin as late as 16.30 for a 22.30 arrival . If curfew ends up being the issue before departure , then i would see the scenario would be to delayed departure ex Darwin to around midnight for a 6am arrival in Sydney . Does anyone have any insight as to what happens with Perth flights that may not meet arrival before curfew ?

The other difference is the gates, DRW has not got many and after QF rush around lunchtime its JQs turn, when most of the aerobridges are turned into International arrivals and departures. DJ already have one arrival taking their gate, regardless of the time be it 1300 or 1600, there is no room for another flight!

 

[Justchecking]

Maybe Darwins lack of international and domestic services has more to do with their airport than an unwillingness by airlines to service it. Maybe it's time for Darwin airport to create some standoff bays in the short term and a terminal extension in the long term. I'll admit beyond seeing the ridiculously tiny terminal, once or twice I have little understanding of the infrastructure in the top end.

 

[UP4014]

Maybe it's just a lack of passengers for some routes.

I just tried looking on their web site for a route map, but couldn't find anything, they show the destinations in a list. I suspect it's better for them not to have a map so at a glance when you look at the destination list it appears it would be no problem flying around, however in reality you'd be going two sides around the triangle.

 

[markis10]

A refresher for those that have not been to DRW for a while re gates etc:

 

[loobloke]

A few facts,

DRW airport is currently being expanded though it will take quite a few years.
QF run 2 daily 738 flights to SYD, which every time I'm on has very high loads.
All DRW flights have very reasonable loads, I can't think of the last time I was on a DRW flight on any carrier where the plane was less than say 75% full, as compared to some shuttle services I've been on...
There are 3 domestic gates in DRW and 1(.5) international gates. QF group controls gates 3/4, and uses gate 1 for their 717 flights. VA get to pick up the leftovers from gate 1.
JQ takes all the gates for early morning flights. QF take all midday flights. JQ takes all the evening flights.
VA has 2 (yes only TWO) check in counters at DRW. You think the lines are bad for other cities, try checking into outbound DRW flights where every man and his dog has checked luggage on a plane that is usually full.

The DRW routing is as follows, MEL - DRW - PER - DRW - MEL
Conveniently, this bird spends several hours parked at DRW between flights .... But there's not enough time to squeeze in another round of return flights using this bird.

If VA did want to add flights to DRW, I would think that it would be necessary to reschedule all the current flights to get gate space ...
But it would be very nice to have a day time flight east coast wise, most DRW flights are quite horribly timed.

Finally, if you live in DRW you are accustomed to being neglected, at the very least by airlines.

I'm dreaming that they add a E190 SYD/DRW/ADL run And whilst they are at it, build a lounge in DRW.

But this is one dream that is very unlikely to come true.
In the expansion plan, they have opted away from a proposal which would add additional space for new aircraft lounges.
And I would think that speaks for the commitment VA currently has for DRW.

http://www.darwinairport.com.au/sites/default/files/Final Minor Variation Terminal MDP.pdf
http://www.darwinairport.com.au/sites/default/files/DIA Flight Schedule November 2011v1.pdf
^And in comparison to the pic mark posted, look at the evening gates in DRW where the orange pentagrams are everywhere.

 

[DJ332]

A few facts,

DRW airport is currently being expanded though it will take quite a few years.
QF run 2 daily 738 flights to SYD, which every time I'm on has very high loads.
All DRW flights have very reasonable loads, I can't think of the last time I was on a DRW flight on any carrier where the plane was less than say 75% full, as compared to some shuttle services I've been on...
There are 3 domestic gates in DRW and 1(.5) international gates. QF group controls gates 3/4, and uses gate 1 for their 717 flights. VA get to pick up the leftovers from gate 1.
JQ takes all the gates for early morning flights. QF take all midday flights. JQ takes all the evening flights.
VA has 2 (yes only TWO) check in counters at DRW. You think the lines are bad for other cities, try checking into outbound DRW flights where every man and his dog has checked luggage on a plane that is usually full.

The DRW routing is as follows, MEL - DRW - PER - DRW - MEL
Conveniently, this bird spends several hours parked at DRW between flights .... But there's not enough time to squeeze in another round of return flights using this bird.

If VA did want to add flights to DRW, I would think that it would be necessary to reschedule all the current flights to get gate space ...
But it would be very nice to have a day time flight east coast wise, most DRW flights are quite horribly timed.

Finally, if you live in DRW you are accustomed to being neglected, at the very least by airlines.

I'm dreaming that they add a E190 SYD/DRW/ADL run And whilst they are at it, build a lounge in DRW.

But this is one dream that is very unlikely to come true.
In the expansion plan, they have opted away from a proposal which would add additional space for new aircraft lounges.
And I would think that speaks for the commitment VA currently has for DRW.

http://www.darwinairport.com.au/sites/default/files/Final Minor Variation Terminal MDP.pdf
http://www.darwinairport.com.au/sites/default/files/DIA Flight Schedule November 2011v1.pdf
^And in comparison to the pic mark posted, look at the evening gates in DRW where the orange pentagrams are everywhere.

A very good account of DRW and the problems experienced by DJ. From family living in Darwin I know how badly neglected they are and the DJ flights are indeed very inconveniently timed. From looking at the first PDF file re: terminal expansion, do I correctly infer they don't plan on adding any new aerobridges?

 

[loobloke]

A refresher for those that have not been to DRW for a while re gates etc:
View attachment 4555

^Midday

^Morning/Afternoon

 

[airtraveladdict]

I do the MEL - DRW - MEL flight a few times a year, and pretty much have to wait all day for the direct flight or go via Brisbane, which takes just as long because of layover etc.

And one time, Virgin Australia crew from Brisbane could not make it in time to Melbourne and apparently they had exceeded their 12-hour shift, so the MEL - DRW flight was rescheduled for 2PM the next day, so I missed all my flight connections lol...oh well

Often on the return flight to MEL, I am tempted to book Qantas because at least they have flights that leave every hour or so from I think 11AM, although not direct flights you have a 1 hour layover in Adelaide, Brisbane, or Sydney to Melbourne, which arrives in Melbourne around 6-7PM.

That is better than arriving at Darwin on an early morning flight at 8.45AM and waiting until 6PM at the magnificent Darwin airport to board a Virgin flight to Melbourne, which arrives around 11.45PM.

I don't think its Virgin's fault, I just think there are not enough gates and Qantas and Jetstar control most of them. Darwin airport really needs to upgrade, I mean seriously, they want tourists in the top end right?

Anyway Darwin doesn't also have a Virgin lounge either, I guess thats because they only have like 6 flights out of there daily, so I have to slum it at the airport terminal, which is the size of two community centers. The international/domestic terminal is separated by a glass wall, and the international terminal has one cafe.

Poor Darwin residents, i feel sorry for them.

 

[Justchecking]

What a fascinating education in Australian airport administration. So the airport authority want to make extra $$$ by leasing gates to airlines but in doing so they run the risk of creating a monopolistic market in which the people flying are then forced to pay higher airfares. wasn't there an article in recent times about JB being in discussion with the Top End govt, presumably about airport access and increasing their flight schedule?