Wills, taxes and other complications including when family reside overseas

Seat0B

Established Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Posts
3,652
Qantas
Platinum
Following on from conversations in the general medical issues thread, I’ve started this as a place for sharing experiences about dealing with the inevitable when family situation is complicated because some family members live overseas.

This is intended only to be experience sharing. None of us will be giving anyone else advice, just sharing what we have done ourselves so that participants can consider the questions they want to ask of their formally qualified advisers!

Please don’t reveal information that you are not comfortable with, but equally it is really helpful to other participants if you could provide some non sensitive details eg are you talking about property, shares, cash, super; what are the ownership structures eg personal, company, trust etc; what are the family relationships and nationalities including dual nationalities; which countries are involved, and within Australia, which state(s) and territories as they all have different tax and foreign investors/resident rules. Where possible please provide links to official sources of information so others can check their own circumstances.

Let’s see how we go.
 
My firm policy in planning for my demise, having property and banks in multiple countries is as follows:

1. All properties and accounts in my main country of residence in my name. My will is there too. This country has no inheritance tax.

2. All properties in other countries will be transferred to intended recipients well in advance (as my parents did).

3. All bank accounts in other countries will be made into joint accounts with intended recipients, if possible. This allows instant 'transfer' (in most countries laws), and also allows existing direct debits such as bill payments to continue without changing the contract, which is tedious in some countries.

4. An offshore trust will probably be dissolved and dispersed to recipients, although I'll probably have to become an expat temporarily to avoid paying tax. This is to avoid the recipients having to pay taxes. It's not particularly large, and probably not worth maintaining when my private pension fund is tax-free anyway.

Just my plans, not necessarily the best. This is based on my experiences from my parents' demises.
 
Last edited:
So, background.

We have Seat Daughter 36, married with one child, lives in Canberra, paying off her own home. She is Australian, with no other citizenships. So far, so easy!

And Seat Son, 31, not married, currently lives and works in the United Arab Emirates (since 2017). He also previously lived and worked in the United Kingdom (2015-2017) and the Netherlands (2014-2015). Before he left Australia, he had worked a number of quite good casual jobs since he was 17. He has pension/retirement assets in Australia, NL, UK and I am not sure about the UAE. He has bank accounts still in all these countries, sizeable in the UAE. Until October 2022, he was a dual Australian/US citizen (accident of birth when we were on military posting there). He recently gave up his US citizenship because of tax complications associated with it. I will post more on that when I have the time to research the relevant links. He does not own a home. He has some cash towards a home, but because of his work as a lawyer for large global firms, he has had to establish a trust arrangement for managing this as he is not allowed to have any personal share/investment interests that might be a conflict of interest. Mr Seat 0A and I are the trustees for this.

As a lawyer himself, Seat Son is painfully aware that technically he needs a valid will in every single one of these jurisdictions in the event of his own demise, but I don't think he has done this as yet. He is of the opinion that as the amounts are relatively small, the authorities would likely accept his Australian will, but I think this is the first thing for people like us to consider. If you have assets in more than one jurisdiction, you likely need a will in each of those jurisdictions dealing with the assets located in that place - or an "international will" that is effective in some countries.


This one above has the list of countries that recognise an international will and the requirements for signature for such a will to be valid.

Mr Seat 0A and I are both Australian, with no other citizenships. As boomers, we have followed the typical life path of marrying and having children by ages that are regarded as very young today. We were both in the military, and have super associated with that. Then we were in the public service, and both have super associated with that. Then I started a business and we also have an SMSF associated with that. We own our house in Canberra (ACT), a couple of student accommodation units in Melbourne (Vic) and are currently building a holiday house in Jindabnye (NSW). We also have a few shares and other investments. We are all but retired, although I occasionally do some work when it interests me.

Our wills are everything that we haven't managed to spend or give away shared equally between the kids. The two kids as executors, although given the complication of Seat Son living overseas, they are able to act together or alone under the terms of the will. But with the complication of Seat Son's (then) dual nationality and his residence overseas, and the spread of our property assets our lawyer had a conniption about how complex this all was for passing on assets, and said that we needed to put a clause requiring the executors to take formal financial, legal and taxation advice before dealing with any asset under the will, at the expense of the estate to be sure we don't fall into any traps, mainly caused by Seat Son's situation. I'll write more about that when I have the time.

With respect to giving it away before we go, we have for a long time thought it was better to share what we have with the kids while we are alive to see them benefit/enjoy, ans so we have been doling out small amounts of cash, and paying for overseas family holidays for several years. We have been quite influenced recently by the book Die with Zero, which has taken it even a step further in our thinking. Hmm, "every dollar in your bank account represents an experience not enjoyed" is pushing my buttons right now, maybe because of my health 🤷‍♀️.


More to follow....
 
First thing we were told to establish for each beneficiary under our wills is their tax residency position - which is not necessarily the same as their actual physical residence. This matters because of the way the transfer of assets might be taxed by different countries and even by different states in Australia. This is MUCH more complicated than it looks, but there is no doubt in our situation that Seat Daughter is an Australian Tax Resident, and Seat Son is a foreign tax resident.


An Australian tax resident is is assessable on income derived from all sources, whether in or out ofAustralia, whereas a foreign resident is assessable only on income derived from Australian sources.


This case gives an idea of what has to happen in order to "cut ties with Australia"
 
2. All properties in other countries will be transferred to intended recipients well in advance (as my parents did).
However a times one's demise is instant~unforeseen and not planned in advance.
For some when the time slowly comes they may not have the capacity to transfer assets in a planned manner.
 
I like the idea of transferring major funds to a joint account. We did this, urgently, two days before mum died on the advice of a lawyer. Both brother and I had P of A so as soon as the lawyer said that, I dragged him out of work, told him not to answer the phone and straight to the bank. It meant as soon as we felt able after her passing we simply transferred the funds to each other. But it's non cash assets that's the issue.

This was advice from our lawyer. It isn't to be considered legal advice here. 😉 B lives in UK. A lives in Australia.

Generally, inheritance of assets following a death does not trigger a liability for Capital Gains Tax (CGT) in respect of any capital gains on the asset. CGT will apply only when an executor or beneficiary disposes of an asset. Your estate will not be liable for CGT, and at the time of inheritance, neither will A or B (sons), unless there is a disposal, such as a sale.


In some instances, a foreign resident will incur CGT on inherited assets. However:

  • cash is not a CGT asset, and therefore a distribution of cash to B will not be impacted by any CGT event; and
  • the passing of real property from your estate to B will not give rise to any CGT consequences at the time of his inheritance.

However, the sale or disposal of real estate will always give rise to CGT in Australia. This also applies to any real estate inherited via a Will (unless that property is your main residence and is sold with settlement occurring within two years of the date of death (with some time extensions possible), in which case it will be CGT exempt).

If, as a result of your Will, A inherits your main residence and it then becomes his main residence and he then sells or disposes of it, he would be entitled to the main residence CGT exemption. B as a foreign resident would not be entitled to the main residence exemption.

As per your current instructions, both A and B are to receive your real estate equally on the death of the last of you. Depending on when they sell the inherited property, they are likely to incur CGT. There are some distinctions in how that CGT event would be treated between B and A.


Foreign Resident Capital Gains Withholding

B may one day wish to sell any property he may inherit. As a foreign resident, when he does so, a 12.5% withholding tax will be payable at the time of settlement. This means that 12.5% of the purchase price, should the property be sold for more than $750,000, must be withheld by the purchaser and paid to the ATO. This tax applies to any Australian property, regardless if B is the sole owner or has only a part interest. In addition, B would have to put in a tax return and pay the remainder of the CGT calculated at the applicable tax rate. As a foreign resident, B would not be able to claim a 50% discount available to Australian residents.

The 12.5% withholding tax would not apply to a sale by A as an Australian resident, but he would nevertheless be liable for CGT, which would have to be disclosed in his tax return.

Main Residence Exemption

You have instructed that the C property is your main residence for tax purposes. You have also instructed that the property, as part of the residue of your estate, will be left to A and B equally on the death of the last of you.

A may be exempt (or partially exempt) from a CGT event when it occurs, such as on the disposal of the property.

For this exemption to apply to A the following points must be satisfied:

  • At the time of the death of the last of you the C property is your main residence and not used to produce income; and
  • A disposes of his ownership interest in the property and settlement occurs within two years of his inheriting it; OR
  • From the death of the last of you to the time A eventually disposes of the property, the property was not used to produce income AND it was the main residence of A (or any other person who has the right to occupy the property under your Will).
If A does not meet the above criteria for a full exemption, he could possibly qualify for a partial exemption. The amount of CGT payable would be determined with reference to the number of days the property was not used as Mark’s main residence or was used to produce income.

If you sell the C property during your lifetimes, or another property becomes your main residence instead, the above exemption could apply to that property in lieu of C.

B as a foreign resident, is not entitled to the Main Residence Exemption.

In any case, as noted above, B and A can avoid a CGT event on the sale of inherited property that was your main residence if settlement occurs within two years (or permitted extension period) of the date of death.


Sign. Cash is so much easier. 😂
 
Last edited:
For everyone planning to 'gift' things before they go, you don't know when and you don't know where.
 
Last edited:
Once mum (dementia)was in care , we (discussed with mum) sold her home. Mum's complaint (kinda) was I wanted her to gift half each to myself and my son . Mum was a bit cranky about it as she wanted the funds to all go to me but agreed it was probably the best idea . The impact was an increase in her nursing home fees.
Mum worked in probate and estate law so it was a discussion that was a "old " memory for her and she was able to have that conversation lol.
She actually enjoyed having input on that.
Mum's bond was already paid and she had significant income coming in
 
Once mum (dementia)was in care , we (discussed with mum) sold her home. Mum's complaint (kinda) was I wanted her to gift half each to myself and my son . Mum was a bit cranky about it as she wanted the funds to all go to me but agreed it was probably the best idea . The impact was an increase in her nursing home fees.
Mum worked in probate and estate law so it was a discussion that was a "old " memory for her and she was able to have that conversation lol.
She actually enjoyed having input on that.
Mum's bond was already paid and she had significant income coming in

Don't forget as well there are 5 yearly limits on gifting if you want to avoid extra taxation.
 
Turn business expenses into Business Class! Process $10,000 through pay.com.au to score 20,000 bonus PayRewards Points and join 30k+ savvy business owners enjoying these benefits:

- Pay suppliers who don’t take Amex
- Max out credit card rewards—even on government payments
- Earn & Transfer PayRewards Points to 8+ top airline & hotel partners

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

I had an inheritance a couple of years ago from a close friend in the UK. Because she had no immediate family we had to pay 40% inheritance tax in the UK. She also owned a house in France and the French (because they can) don't recognise the validity of the English will. The palaver went on for over two years. In France if you want to inherit a house you have to pay the inheritance tax before you can take over the house (I think it was 60% but it may have been a bit lower) I suppose if the French want to have such a great welfare state someone has to pay for it
 
The good thing about my inheritance was I didn't have to pay any tax on it in Australia. I'm still waiting for the tax office to ask why I transferred a healthy sum from the UK to Australia. I have my Australian TFN on my UK bank account so maybe they checked it out and didn't bother
 
Die with Zero
In our case it's probably "Die with not very much", having dispersed assets etc to offspring etc.

However, planning for this is fraught with danger, as it really doesn't take account of accidents wiping out one or both.
 
With respect to giving it away before we go, we have for a long time thought it was better to share what we have with the kids while we are alive to see them benefit/enjoy, ans so we have been doling out small amounts of cash, and paying for overseas family holidays for several years.
Ditto, doing what you can, it makes us smile on the inside.
We have been quite influenced recently by the book Die with Zero, which has taken it even a step further in our thinking. Hmm, "every dollar in your bank account represents an experience not enjoyed" is pushing my buttons right now, maybe because of my health 🤷‍♀️.


More to follow....
Must get that book @Seat0B !
And thanks for the new thread .
 
In our case it's probably "Die with not very much", having dispersed assets etc to offspring etc.

However, planning for this is fraught with danger, as it really doesn't take account of accidents wiping out one or both.
All of the "give it away" approach is fraught with the particular danger of "longevity risk" - how much will you realistically need to salt away for your own aged care?

And yes, the possibility of a sudden and unpredicted demise means it's a good idea to have back up plans in place so that things don't end up as a bunfight, or not very tax effective, or leaving the family, or going to people you did not want to support etc etc etc.

It's quite complex for sure even without the added complications of family being in different countries.
 
However a times one's demise is instant~unforeseen and not planned in advance.
For some when the time slowly comes they may not have the capacity to transfer assets in a planned manner.
Totally agree with you on this @Mwenenzi - the need to have a Plan B in place is very real as none of us really knows when our number will come up.

And capacity is a minefield. My dear old dad had serious dementia, and we were super glad that we got arrangements in place just before he lost capacity. We really only did the power of attorney and will at the nagging of Seat Son, who was then a baby lawyer and happy to give advice to us all (just not to follow it himself, it seems 😆). And it was only a matter of weeks later that he started to lose the plot. A very close call.

But we did not think to get my sister or me appointed to manage his "My Aged Care" before it was clear he had lost capacity and could not consent to us receiving information or making decisions for him. That meant that mum had to do it all at a time of stress and distress, high personal workload caring for dad, her own old age, and it was really cruel. I honestly don't know what they would have done if mum did not step up. So lucky that dad passed away quite quickly in the end. We have this sorted now for mum's My Aged Care.

So that is another tip - get additional supporters appointed onto My Aged Care accounts while the loved one still has the capacity to consent to this.
 
I like the idea of transferring major funds to a joint account. We did this, urgently, two days before mum died on the advice of a lawyer. Both brother and I had P of A so as soon as the lawyer said that, I dragged him out of work, told him not to answer the phone and straight to the bank. It meant as soon as we felt able after her passing we simply transferred the funds to each other. But it's non cash assets that's the issue.

This was advice from our lawyer. It isn't to be considered legal advice here. 😉 B lives in UK. A lives in Australia.

Generally, inheritance of assets following a death does not trigger a liability for Capital Gains Tax (CGT) in respect of any capital gains on the asset. CGT will apply only when an executor or beneficiary disposes of an asset. Your estate will not be liable for CGT, and at the time of inheritance, neither will A or B (sons), unless there is a disposal, such as a sale.


In some instances, a foreign resident will incur CGT on inherited assets. However:

  • cash is not a CGT asset, and therefore a distribution of cash to B will not be impacted by any CGT event; and
  • the passing of real property from your estate to B will not give rise to any CGT consequences at the time of his inheritance.

However, the sale or disposal of real estate will always give rise to CGT in Australia. This also applies to any real estate inherited via a Will (unless that property is your main residence and is sold with settlement occurring within two years of the date of death (with some time extensions possible), in which case it will be CGT exempt).

If, as a result of your Will, A inherits your main residence and it then becomes his main residence and he then sells or disposes of it, he would be entitled to the main residence CGT exemption. B as a foreign resident would not be entitled to the main residence exemption.

As per your current instructions, both A and B are to receive your real estate equally on the death of the last of you. Depending on when they sell the inherited property, they are likely to incur CGT. There are some distinctions in how that CGT event would be treated between B and A.


Foreign Resident Capital Gains Withholding

B may one day wish to sell any property he may inherit. As a foreign resident, when he does so, a 12.5% withholding tax will be payable at the time of settlement. This means that 12.5% of the purchase price, should the property be sold for more than $750,000, must be withheld by the purchaser and paid to the ATO. This tax applies to any Australian property, regardless if B is the sole owner or has only a part interest. In addition, B would have to put in a tax return and pay the remainder of the CGT calculated at the applicable tax rate. As a foreign resident, B would not be able to claim a 50% discount available to Australian residents.

The 12.5% withholding tax would not apply to a sale by A as an Australian resident, but he would nevertheless be liable for CGT, which would have to be disclosed in his tax return.

Main Residence Exemption

You have instructed that the C property is your main residence for tax purposes. You have also instructed that the property, as part of the residue of your estate, will be left to A and B equally on the death of the last of you.

A may be exempt (or partially exempt) from a CGT event when it occurs, such as on the disposal of the property.

For this exemption to apply to A the following points must be satisfied:

  • At the time of the death of the last of you the C property is your main residence and not used to produce income; and
  • A disposes of his ownership interest in the property and settlement occurs within two years of his inheriting it; OR
  • From the death of the last of you to the time A eventually disposes of the property, the property was not used to produce income AND it was the main residence of A (or any other person who has the right to occupy the property under your Will).
If A does not meet the above criteria for a full exemption, he could possibly qualify for a partial exemption. The amount of CGT payable would be determined with reference to the number of days the property was not used as Mark’s main residence or was used to produce income.

If you sell the C property during your lifetimes, or another property becomes your main residence instead, the above exemption could apply to that property in lieu of C.

B as a foreign resident, is not entitled to the Main Residence Exemption.

In any case, as noted above, B and A can avoid a CGT event on the sale of inherited property that was your main residence if settlement occurs within two years (or permitted extension period) of the date of death.


Sign. Cash is so much easier. 😂
This is the same sort of advice that we got - which led to the thought that maybe Seat Daughter will get property and Seat Son will get cash, shares and super balance.

But it's still complicated. And that's why our lawyer suggested the requirement for executors to get legal, financial and taxation advice before dealing with any of the assets.
 

Become an AFF member!

Join Australian Frequent Flyer (AFF) for free and unlock insider tips, exclusive deals, and global meetups with 65,000+ frequent flyers.

AFF members can also access our Frequent Flyer Training courses, and upgrade to Fast-track your way to expert traveller status and unlock even more exclusive discounts!

AFF forum abbreviations

Wondering about Y, J or any of the other abbreviations used on our forum?

Check out our guide to common AFF acronyms & abbreviations.
Back
Top